The Medium supports RT for both AMD and Mvidia at launch

[Jimbo]

Played it today on my Sapphire 6800XT nitro + oc. Was enjoying it but it crashed on me 3 times. Especially using out of body thing. RT I tried but quickly disabled as it tanks performance so not useable @ 4K high settings. I just wish theyd release a game thats not as stable as a 2 legged chair.

 

[Grim5]

There is always GeForce NOW for the lower end

Not so heavy RT usage, but still backs up the same story even though this time it's AMD sponsored.

Yeah games that use just RT shadows have the AMD cards performing relatively better than they do if there is Global Illumination, Reflections or Depth of Field. That's simply because AMD's RT setup is reasonable at doing the RT shadows but not good at doing any other type of RT especially when you combine multiple effects

 

[LoadsaMoney]

Meanwhile in WOW with RT

 

[henson0115]

Yeah games that use just RT shadows have the AMD cards performing relatively better than they do if there is Global Illumination, Reflections or Depth of Field. That's simply because AMD's RT setup is reasonable at doing the RT shadows but not good at doing any other type of RT especially when you combine multiple effects

maybe it just needs some tweaking/back end work, NVidia didn't get it spot on straight away.

 

[scubes]

Its not even the RT performance that's the main issue - even with RT OFF the game can't hold 60fps

i have to laugh at games being programmed so crap with the power of these new gpus just lazy ass devs to blame as usal.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Meanwhile in WOW with RT

AMD is quicker!!

 

[Wrinkly]

AMD is quicker!!

AMD are pumping out shadows very well, though I don't if they are restricted to number of lights.

Compare in a title that goes beyond shadows and you see a different outcome.

You thought it was bad on Nvidia, AMDs top card, the 6900 XT, only as fast as the 3060 Ti.

 

[Nexus18]

Those minimum FPS though....



Although drivers could improve performance further (for both camps)

But it kind of confirms my suspicions like what happened with tessellation back in the day, nvidia in their sponsored titles are more than likely over doing ray tracing effects to show up amds weaknesses

 

[Wrinkly]

But it kind of confirms my suspicions like what happened with tessellation back in the day, nvidia in their sponsored titles are more than likely over doing ray tracing effects to show up amds weaknesses

The issue with Nvidia back then was they were using tessellation in such a way that it gave no visual benefit, while costing a huge amount of resourses. RT on the other hand provides a great boost to image quality, while costing a huge amount of resourses. At the moment only Nvidia has invested the silcon towards RT, while AMD have designed a budget console chip. I think RDNA3, being free of consoles, will give Nvidia a run for their money.

 

[Gerard]

The issue with Nvidia back then was they were using tessellation in such a way that it gave no visual benefit, while costing a huge amount of resourses. RT on the other hand provides a great boost to image quality, while costing a huge amount of resourses. At the moment only Nvidia has invested the silcon towards RT, while AMD have designed a budget console chip. I think RDNA3, being free of consoles, will give Nvidia a run for their money.

Not saying much for nvidia if amd's "budget console chip" is basically on par in raster performance with turing.

 

[Wrinkly]

Not saying much for nvidia if amd's "budget console chip" is basically on par in raster performance with turing.

I would describe AMD being on par with Nvidia when considerring raster performance and Turing on RT performance. It is very important to note the lack of any DLSS competitor from AMD as DLSS is crucial in providing usable RT. There was a reason so many people skipped Turing, while Jesen himself joked about it now being safe to upgrade with Ampere.

 

[nvidiamd]

I would describe AMD being on par with Nvidia when considerring raster performance and Turing on RT performance. It is very important to note the lack of any DLSS competitor from AMD as DLSS is crucial in providing usable RT. There was a reason so many people skipped Turing, while Jesen himself joked about it now being safe to upgrade with Ampere.

But that means Ampere is also not powerful enough to handle RT titles. It is still a budget console chip that needs upscaling to fool you that you play at 1440p or 4k.

 

[Gerard]

I would describe AMD being on par with Nvidia when considerring raster performance and Turing on RT performance. It is very important to note the lack of any DLSS competitor from AMD as DLSS is crucial in providing usable RT. There was a reason so many people skipped Turing, while Jesen himself joked about it now being safe to upgrade with Ampere.

AMD are faster in rt performance vs turing form what i've seen which for their first effort at it in the gaming space is good.

As for dlss and the upcoming amd equivalent, all that shows is RT performance needs a sizable crutch to be usable for the most part. We're still a few gens off being able to turn it on and have negligible performance impact.

 

[Wrinkly]

But that means Ampere is also not powerful enough to handle RT titles. It is still a budget console chip that needs upscaling to fool you that you play at 1440p or 4k.

I've never described Ampere as being able to do 1440p or 4k with RT And without DLSS. That is why DLSS is so important. On balance, where Nvidia is doing 1080p / 1440p source ,1440p / 4k with DLSS, AMD can only manage 520p due to 50% RT performance and no DLSS competitor.

 

[Wrinkly]

AMD are faster in rt performance vs turing form what i've seen which for their first effort at it in the gaming space is good.

Yes, it's a good first attempt, but I'm not throwing my money on 2nd place.

As for dlss and the upcoming amd equivalent, all that shows is RT performance needs a sizable crutch to be usable for the most part. We're still a few gens off being able to turn it on and have negligible performance impact.

This is nothing new. We saw this with Turing, indeed we saw this at the Turing launch.

 

[Gerard]

This is nothing new. We saw this with Turing, indeed we saw this at the Turing launch.

Then the argument could be made it was introduced too early if they're having to resort to messing with the image to get playable framerates. DLSS and the amd alternative are never going to match native res in motion, maybe they can do it stationary but motion is where the illusion falls apart.

 

[Mesai]

Then the argument could be made it was introduced too early if they're having to resort to messing with the image to get playable framerates. DLSS and the amd alternative are never going to match native res in motion, maybe they can do it stationary but motion is where the illusion falls apart.

A bigger problem is the trend of game developers building unoptimised garbage. It’s going to be a struggle for future cards to include significantly more RT cores without impacting cost and power consumption, which is probably why Nvidia put effort into DLSS.

AMD made a great leap with RDNA2, but will take a while for them to get their software right. Ampere was also a change of direction for Nvidia so I expect both the 4000 series and RDNA3 to have sizeable improvements over current gen.

 

[nvidiamd]

I've never described Ampere as being able to do 1440p or 4k with RT And without DLSS. That is why DLSS is so important. On balance, where Nvidia is doing 1080p / 1440p source ,1440p / 4k with DLSS, AMD can only manage 520p due to 50% RT performance and no DLSS competitor.

But you said they invested in RT, unlike AMD. It looks like they invested more in upscaling than in RT, it is the same budget console chip with better upscaling.
And remember, both of the cards are doing something like 1 sample/pixel RT. So if we talk about investing in ray tracing or ray traced games, check to see how the image looks before denoising. Denoising is another thing similar to upscaling and most likely the place where AMD is losing most of the performance in RT because they don't have the hardware and Nvidia denoisers are made specially for their tensor cores.
This also explains the poor performance on Quake II, Minecraft or 3d mark ray tracing benchmark. You use Nvidia's denoiser, you cripple everything else.

 

[Wrinkly]

But you said they invested in RT, unlike AMD. It looks like they invested more in upscaling than in RT, it is the same budget console chip with better upscaling.
And remember, both of the cards are doing something like 1 sample/pixel RT. So if we talk about investing in ray tracing or ray traced games, check to see how the image looks before denoising. Denoising is another thing similar to upscaling and most likely the place where AMD is losing most of the performance in RT because they don't have the hardware and Nvidia denoisers are made specially for their tensor cores.
This also explains the poor performance on Quake II, Minecraft or 3d mark ray tracing benchmark. You use Nvidia's denoiser, you cripple everything else.

Of course Nvidia have invested more silicon in RT, this is why they can offer ~400% better performance over RDNA2. Both cards aren't doing 1 sample/pixel RT as AMD will be using quarter resolution RT or quarter the FPS.

AMD's lack of performance has nothing to do with Nvidia, AMD can only blame themselves.

DirectX Raytracing Feature Test

1 GPU

1. Score 65.23, GPU 3090 @2250/5512, CPU 10900k @5.3, Post No.0491, Jay-G25 - Link Drivers 460.89
2. Score 64.34, GPU 3090 @2235/5344, CPU 7820X @4.7, Post No.0489, anihcniedam - Link Drivers 460.89
3. Score 63.87, GPU 3090 @2205/5328, CPU 6950X @4.401, Post No.0496, FlyingScotsman - Link Drivers 460.89
4. Score 63.14, GPU 3090 @2265/4876, CPU 5950X @4.8, Post No.0462, OC2000 - Link Drivers 460.79
5. Score 62.98, GPU 3090 @2205/5328, CPU 9900KF @5.0, Post No.0379, spartapee - Link Drivers 457.09
6. Score 62.38, GPU 3090 @2160/4976, CPU 9900k @5.0, Post No.0480, Raiden85 - Link Drivers 460.89
7. Score 61.61, GPU 3090 @2115/5128, CPU 9980XE @4.5, Post No.0487, Greebo - Link Drivers 460.89
8. Score 60.23, GPU 3090 @2145/5176, CPU 3175X @4.8, Post No.0415, sedy25 - Link Drivers 457.30
9. Score 59.34, GPU 3090 @2070/4976, CPU 5950X @4.965, Post No.0474, Grim5 - Link Drivers 460.89
10. Score 58.58, GPU 3090 @2100/5276, CPU 3600X @4.4, Post No.0445, Bickaxe - Link Drivers 457.51
11. Score 55.57, GPU 3090 @1980/4876, CPU 5950X @4.1, Post No.0429, Kivafck - Link Drivers 457.30
12. Score 55.57, GPU 3090 @1995/4876, CPU 10900k @5.1, Post No.0357, Sedgey123 - Link Drivers 457.09
13. Score 55.50, GPU 3090 @2085/5076, CPU 3800X @4.7, Post No.0450, ChrisUK1983 - Link Drivers 457.51
14. Score 55.47, GPU 3090 @2040/4876, CPU 5900X @3.7, Post No.0423, atomic7431 - Link Drivers 457.30
15. Score 54.39, GPU 3090 @1905/5176, CPU 10900k @5.2, Post No.0446, kipperthedog - Link Drivers 457.51
16. Score 52.24, GPU 3080 @2235/5252, CPU 3900X @4.649, Post No.0413, haszek - Link Drivers 457.09
17. Score 50.56, GPU 3080 @2145/5248, CPU 3600 @4.4, Post No.0411, TNA - Link Drivers 457.30
18. Score 34.15, GPU 6900XT @2625/4280, CPU 5800X @5.049, Post No.0477, 6900 XT - Link Drivers 20.12.2
19. Score 33.31, GPU 3070 @2085/4050, CPU 3175X @4.12, Post No.0392, sedy25 - Link Drivers 457.09
20. Score 32.54, GPU 2080 Ti @2130/3500, CPU 3950X @4.301, Post No.0357, Grim5 - Link Drivers 452.06
21. Score 29.91, GPU 2080 Ti @1980/3500, CPU 8700 @4.3, Post No.0391, Quartz - Link Drivers 456.55
22. Score 23.96, GPU 6800 @2295/4220, CPU 3900X @4.541, Post No.0459, Chrisc - Link Drivers 20.12.1
23. Score 21.36, GPU 2080 @2025/4050, CPU 9900k @5.0, Post No.0365, Cooper - Link Drivers 457.09

Again in The Medium, a Microsoft XBox title where Nvidia have added DLSS and some extra RT fetures.

Medium Nvidia vs AMD benchmarks

It's a blood bath in this Xbox/AMD Exclusive title, with the $430 3060ti beating the $1400 6900xt (prices from microcentre)

Even just a couple weeks ago people were still saying that once we get the first Xbox exclusive, it will show up with glorious PC performance due to them all using AMD hardware and locking Nvidia out - well yeah it sure seems that, Nvidia's GPU definetly aren't able to compete with AMD Xbox exclusive Direct X 12 Ultimate Ray Traced titles





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xloQ5HPlmhQ&feature=emb_title

 

[Wrinkly]

Then the argument could be made it was introduced too early if they're having to resort to messing with the image to get playable framerates. DLSS and the amd alternative are never going to match native res in motion, maybe they can do it stationary but motion is where the illusion falls apart.

I've been playing Control, Cyberpunk 2077 and The Medium all at 1440p with DLSS without issue. I'll take RT+DLSS any day over non RT due to the extra immersion it adds. I'll say again that the only reason I upgraded from a EVGA 1080Ti FTW3 was RT.