****The Official 5G Home Broadband Thread**** (Three/EE/Vodafone/etc)

[Pulseammo]

No difference on 3internet either. So that's x3 APNs tried. Router rebooted each time. Upload is gimped on Three/Smarty with VPN usage.

Ordered a Voxi (Vodafone) SIM to try next.

When you say you tried it "on mobile" are you meaning with the simcard in the mobile phone, or is the mobile phone connected via WiFi to your 5g modem?

It makes no sense if it's on wifi going through the exact same hub :/, I'd start looking at device specific configuration or pointing fingers at the VPN if you know the connection will do it on some devices?

 

[Firegod]

When you say you tried it "on mobile" are you meaning with the simcard in the mobile phone, or is the mobile phone connected via WiFi to your 5g modem?

It makes no sense if it's on wifi going through the exact same hub :/, I'd start looking at device specific configuration or pointing fingers at the VPN if you know the connection will do it on some devices?

Hey, so on mobile yes sorry I mean from my mobile on the WiFi connected to the same router as my PC and as my work laptop. So exact same gateway.

I'm trying my best with Smarty support to give them a chance. So far back and forth via email I've been told that it is due to congestion in my area. This person has totally missed my point. I've asked if they can escalate to another tier of support.

 

[Pulseammo]

Hey, so on mobile yes sorry I mean from my mobile on the WiFi connected to the same router as my PC and as my work laptop. So exact same gateway.

I'm trying my best with Smarty support to give them a chance. So far back and forth via email I've been told that it is due to congestion in my area. This person has totally missed my point. I've asked if they can escalate to another tier of support.

I see you've got a nord app in one of your screenshots, I really don't have much clue how VPNs connect, but could it be something like the mobile phone is using the SSL port through the app but the desktop clients are using another port for VPN traffic (if that exists) and so it's able to determine what it is and shape it that way?

Just spitballing, sorry!

While you're reading the thread do you do any gaming and have you ever found jitter to be an issue on 5g, or better yet do you roughly know your average jitter? Any screenshots you've posted the pings generally look quite decent.

 

[kmax86]

I game on 5g. Most recent game i have been playing is last epoch and no issues (aside from LE server issues), played D4 grand.
Path of exile has this weird stutter that I was not able to address.

Have not tried any other games though.

 

[Pulseammo]

I game on 5g. Most recent game i have been playing is last epoch and no issues (aside from LE server issues), played D4 grand.
Path of exile has this weird stutter that I was not able to address.

Have not tried any other games though.

Thanks for that, do you know if the PoE stutter was definitely 5G related or could it have just been anything (like frame rate), you just couldn't track it down? I think ultimately I'll just load my phone with some data and do a test run, I suppose that's the best way to be sure.

 

[RobTi]

Best way to go the three broadband route, only have virgin here and contract up in a month or two so getting ready to jump ship if possible, on three for the iPhone and it’s okay bar no 5g

 

[kmax86]

Thanks for that, do you know if the PoE stutter was definitely 5G related or could it have just been anything (like frame rate), you just couldn't track it down? I think ultimately I'll just load my phone with some data and do a test run, I suppose that's the best way to be sure.

I dont believe its framerate as it happens as well during the early acts with no action. Watching the graphs shows a big spike in ping then goes back to normal.

 

[Firegod]

Quick update for peeps interested. Smarty have now come back to me and said, and literally this was there entire response to my findings (one line):

"I apologize however Smarty network does not work if connected to VPN."

So that in turn means Three? Yet I've been using a VPN with a Smarty SIM in my Router since March 2023.

 

[erill1971]

Quick update for peeps interested. Smarty have now come back to me and said, and literally this was there entire response to my findings (one line):

"I apologize however Smarty network does not work if connected to VPN."

So that in turn means Three? Yet I've been using a VPN with Smarty since March 2023.

Me too, Mullvad and Airvpn, but just upgraded to EE 5g as BT are useless in the middle of Devon.

 

[Firegod]

Voxi sim arrived today. Activated in my phone and just messed about inside the house to see what it was like, but speeds are terrible indoors. Even when it does flick to 5G, we're talking ~4Mbps. I did hit, in one specific spot, 40Mbps. But that was it. Not to worry though as this sim will be going outdoors tomorrow on the roof, so I'll be interested to see how it performs and also if it can handle the VPN. Side note - with a Three sim in my phone, in the house (even though I get a weak signal) I get ~300Mbps. Mad. Right, Voxi, I'm counting on you tomorrow to do well. Fingers crossed.

 

[Pulseammo]

Voxi sim arrived today. Activated in my phone and just messed about inside the house to see what it was like, but speeds are terrible indoors. Even when it does flick to 5G, we're talking ~4Mbps. I did hit, in one specific spot, 40Mbps. But that was it. Not to worry though as this sim will be going outdoors tomorrow on the roof, so I'll be interested to see how it performs and also if it can handle the VPN. Side note - with a Three sim in my phone, in the house (even though I get a weak signal) I get ~300Mbps. Mad. Right, Voxi, I'm counting on you tomorrow to do well. Fingers crossed.

It still seems all very weird that 3 are able to throttle VPN, for the TCP side they seem to use the standard SSL port, and you'd imagine the packets would be encrypted and wouldn't be tagged to give away what type of traffic they are so are they targeting the vpn provider's endpoint IP? But even that doesn't make sense when you can have 2 devices on the same wifi with 2 different behaviours.

Have you tried other speed tests like DSLReports with the advanced settings HTTPS and dodge compression to see what happens both on and off VPN?

 

[Firegod]

It still seems all very weird that 3 are able to throttle VPN, for the TCP side they seem to use the standard SSL port, and you'd imagine the packets would be encrypted and wouldn't be tagged to give away what type of traffic they are so are they targeting the vpn provider's endpoint IP? But even that doesn't make sense when you can have 2 devices on the same wifi with 2 different behaviours.

Have you tried other speed tests like DSLReports with the advanced settings HTTPS and dodge compression to see what happens both on and off VPN?

Annoyingly I can't seem to get that speed test to work from DSLReports. I've tried both Edge and Firefox (my main browser). Disabled AdGuard. Added the site as an exception to the browser tracking proteciton. Disabled my AV and Firewall. Still won't run. I tried an obfuscated server on Nord and re-ran ookla speedtest. That is meant to disguise the use of VPN to look just like normal traffic (different to double VPN). I then tried Cloudflare speedtest but it reports the same thing.

 

[Pulseammo]

Annoyingly I can't seem to get that speed test to work from DSLReports. I've tried both Edge and Firefox (my main browser). Disabled AdGuard. Added the site as an exception to the browser tracking proteciton. Disabled my AV and Firewall. Still won't run. I tried an obfuscated server on Nord and re-ran ookla speedtest. That is meant to disguise the use of VPN to look just like normal traffic (different to double VPN). I then tried Cloudflare speedtest but it reports the same thing.

Just tried to run it myself and it's telling me it can't reach the servers either (no VPN, just straight from my fttc connection). Sorry about that, dunno what's going on there, it's one I've used regularly in the past when I was tuning QoS to reduce bufferbloat since it has a nice chart.

 

[erill1971]

Fire what VPN are you trying to use and what connection protocol?

 

[Firegod]

Fire what VPN are you trying to use and what connection protocol?

NordVPN for home. Protocol is automatic so depending if I choose a single server it is NordLynx protocol, if I go double or obfuscated it changes to UDP (I believe). At work we use Palo Global Protect.

Quick update on the Voxi (Vodafone) SIM from today. Very interesting. Sadly, I could not get any 5G even in the outside Router which is disappointing. 4G+ was the best it would give me, albeit with a pretty strong signal:

So knowing that was the best I could achieve, I proceded to run some speed tests with the VPN on. And upload speed was not throttled! I tried two VPN "types" just to be sure. Normal single server and obfuscated.

Single VPN

Obfuscated VPN

Brilliant news. However I don't think I'll stick with Voxi. At £30 a month, no 5G, and I'm getting a worse ping ~45ms vs ~20ms... and my download is now ~10x slower. It is a shame, if I could have achieved slightly higher download speed I would be keeping it.

I then thought, it is has been awhile since I checked my backup EE SIM. I figured if I had the ladders out I may as well try everything possible. So here is the EE SIM:

Signal Strength

Single VPN

Obfuscated VPN

No throttling on EE either!

EE is almost like a halfway house though for speeds. Voxi - too slow. EE - mid range speeds. Smarty (who have the upload issue) - max speeds. Like 3-400Mbps.

I'm going to keep the EE one for now. And of course there is always a twist. I tested my work laptop and it was still impacted by the poor upload speed issue even on EE - even though my home devices are working fine?! So on Smarty I was seeing ~1Mbps. With EE I'm seeing ~2Mbps. With Voxi I was able to get ~7Mbps upload. If Vodafone ever upgrade the network near me I'll certainly try them out again.

Cheers all. Sorry for my ramblings lol I bet people are sick of it all.

 

[Firegod]

Update!

I've finally had a response to my complaint. Smarty say that the information provided by the customer service team was WRONG! VPN usage IS supported on the Smarty / Three network. They apologise but go on to say that they do NOT throttle and the issue must therefore be with my VPN provider.

I've responded with all the evidence above - from my testing with other mobile operators (EE and Vodafone) who do not have the issue. I also make mention that two VPN providers have the exact same result on the Three network. So from my end that is multiple devices teted, multiple networks tested AND multiple VPN providers tested. The evidence is pretty clear cut.

I've asked if they can explain, and, also to escalate internally for a resolution and to investigate this problem.

 

[fray_bentos]

Interesting read thank you! I too have some perculiar issues with Smarty (Three UK) around VPN usage. I use "mob.asm.net" for Smarty, but I will try "three.co.uk" when I can and see if there is any difference. I am not seeing a problem with speeds using the APN from Smarty, however I do have as mentioned the VPN issue.

Here are my results.

Mobile Phone (VPN Disabled):

Mobile Phone (VPN Enabled*):

*Sorry was using an obfuscated server by mistake so download speeds took a big hit but normally would be fine - just have to take my word lol.

Desktop PC (VPN Disabled):

Desktop PC (VPN Enabled):

Why is the upload speed so badly restricted when using a VPN on Smarty / Three network?

Here I am on my work laptop now, using a different VPN provider, doing a single .msi file upload. Same result as home devices. Upload speed is being throttled.

Your data doesn't show that your ISP(s) or devices are throttling uploads. It is simply that your VPN is configured to be asymmetric and have lower upload speeds than download. The fact you get the same upload speed on all devices and different ISPs is consistent with this and shows nothing else. Similarly, it seems that switching the VPN enabled faster uploads for you. Again, that tells you it is VPN configuration on the server side that is the bottleneck, not your devices or ISP. There is no conspiracy. There is nothing for the ISP to respond to as they already answered your question correctly.

 

[Pulseammo]

Your data doesn't show that your ISP(s) or devices are throttling uploads. It is simply that your VPN is configured to be asymmetric and have lower upload speeds than download. The fact you get the same upload speed on all devices and different ISPs is consistent with this and shows nothing else. Similarly, it seems that switching the VPN enabled faster uploads for you. Again, that tells you it is VPN configuration on the server side that is the bottleneck, not your devices or ISP. There is no conspiracy. There is nothing for the ISP to respond to as they already answered your question correctly.

I think you've misread his posts, he's getting 40x the upload speed on the *same* VPN when uses Voxi and 30x on EE compared to the same VPN on Smarty. Smarty is the only variable factor it seems.

 

[fray_bentos]

I think you've misread his posts, he's getting 40x the upload speed on the *same* VPN when uses Voxi and 30x on EE compared to the same VPN on Smarty. Smarty is the only variable factor it seems.

Ah OK, voxi results were in a separate post. No conclusions could be drawn from the one I responded to (it was the same speed with VPN on in all cases).

 

[Firegod]

Thanks all - sorry my posts are a bit all over the place so apologies for any confusion. Just wanted to conclude this little saga with a final update from Smarty complaints, this is in response to my findings/testing. They now seem to have gone back on their previous word saying VPN usage is allowed to now they can't assure compatibility.

"Regrettably, we cannot assure the compatibility of SMARTY SIMs with VPN usage, as they are not intended for such purposes. I apologise for any inconvenience this may cause. If you intend to persist in using your SIM in this manner, you might consider exploring alternative service providers."

Basically, go somewhere else is how I read that.

Cheers.