***The Official Home Recording Studio Thread***

The annoying thing with Apple mac is the software becomes unsupported (due to the OS progression) - I've lost a high bite rate firewire sampler and Reason3 I used to use for a but if fun to that.
Far better to run on Linux/Windows in a Virtual machine..
 
Blackvault said:
Hey, could anyone recommend a small mixer to use for zero latency monitoring as shown with this picture. I'm currently experiencing significant lag/phasing/chorusing when attempting to track guitar while listening to the input and playback.

Currently my setup is a:
Guitar -> Kemper = > Presonus AudioBox -USB-> PC
Headphones coming out of AudioBox.
*= donates stereo.

I'm looking at recording guitar with two inputs from my Kemper to the mixer but looking at any smaller home orientated mixers, they all seem to have a combined output. Any suggestions, around a budget £100-200 or so.


A--Zero-latency-monitoring-with-a-mixer.jpg
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If you're using a kemper you shouldn't be having to deal with latency.

Looking at your Presonus it doesn't look like you have an direct monitoring switch so I'm guessing the mixer nob does the same thing? Turn it full the opposite way.

Essentially if you don't use direct monitoring with any interface (unless you have pro tools HD or something) then there will always be latency which is why most people will almost always use direct monitoring.
 
ShortWarning said:
If you're using a kemper you shouldn't be having to deal with latency.

Looking at your Presonus it doesn't look like you have an direct monitoring switch so I'm guessing the mixer nob does the same thing? Turn it full the opposite way.

Essentially if you don't use direct monitoring with any interface (unless you have pro tools HD or something) then there will always be latency which is why most people will almost always use direct monitoring.
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Cheers for getting back to me.

I'm not getting latency so much with the Kemper, at least not, when I've the headphones plugged into it. The issue comes when the Kemper's output is fed into the Presonus interface, then the previously laid down straights are put back out through the interface. There is a mix knob on the interface to mix between the input and playback however when at 50:50, there is incredible latency, and I assume phasing (choursy) sounds from the two signals. If I turn the mix all the way to input, fine, and all the way to playback (minus the guitar input trace being monitored in the DAW) but its getting the balance of the two.

Is this direct monitoring you're referring too, different from the setup I posted?
 
Blackvault said:
Cheers for getting back to me.

I'm not getting latency so much with the Kemper, at least not, when I've the headphones plugged into it. The issue comes when the Kemper's output is fed into the Presonus interface, then the previously laid down straights are put back out through the interface. There is a mix knob on the interface to mix between the input and playback however when at 50:50, there is incredible latency, and I assume phasing (choursy) sounds from the two signals. If I turn the mix all the way to input, fine, and all the way to playback (minus the guitar input trace being monitored in the DAW) but its getting the balance of the two.

Is this direct monitoring you're referring too, different from the setup I posted?
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Sorry, I shouldn't have mentioned the kemper as it wasn't really relevant, I use mostly amp sims which is why I mentioned it.

Set the mix knob to 0.

When you set it to 50/50 what you are hearing is the kemper running through your interface, into your computer then back out again, which causes latency. If you set it to 0 you should hear what's coming out of your computer (-the kemper). This way, you'll still hear the kemper but directly from the kemper without the latency.

It sounds weird but give it a go. A mixer won't fix your issue, you'll still hear the latency from the mixer in then out again.
 
ShortWarning said:
Sorry, I shouldn't have mentioned the kemper as it wasn't really relevant, I use mostly amp sims which is why I mentioned it.

Set the mix knob to 0.

When you set it to 50/50 what you are hearing is the kemper running through your interface, into your computer then back out again, which causes latency. If you set it to 0 you should hear what's coming out of your computer (-the kemper). This way, you'll still hear the kemper but directly from the kemper without the latency.

It sounds weird but give it a go. A mixer won't fix your issue, you'll still hear the latency from the mixer in then out again.
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Zero as in full playback mix? Then if I set the playback from the input from the DAW, that's where I'm getting the delay, from me playing a note and from when it goes back out of the PC and into my headphones. As far as I understand I'm only hearing the playback delayed sound. Its very hard to actually play along with it.
 
Blackvault said:
Zero as in full playback mix? Then if I set the playback from the input from the DAW, that's where I'm getting the delay, from me playing a note and from when it goes back out of the PC and into my headphones. As far as I understand I'm only hearing the playback delayed sound. Its very hard to actually play along with it.
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In fact ignore all of the above. I'm getting the wrong end of the stick. You want direct monitoring in the DAW.

Which DAW are you using? In Pro tools there's "low latency monitoring", if you don't have this, mute the the track you're recording to in your DAW (and use the mix knob to decide how much kemper you want in your monitoring mix). This is what we had to do in pro tools until they introduced low latency monitoring. That will get rid of the latency.
 
ShortWarning said:
In fact ignore all of the above. I'm getting the wrong end of the stick. You want direct monitoring in the DAW.

Which DAW are you using? In Pro tools there's "low latency monitoring", if you don't have this, mute the the track you're recording to in your DAW (and use the mix knob to decide how much kemper you want in your monitoring mix). This is what we had to do in pro tools until they introduced low latency monitoring. That will get rid of the latency.
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I've using Studio One by Presonus. I've experimented with the zero/low latency settings but its a bit naff as it still has the latency.

Surely studios don't have this problem. Surely these are the solutions? http://www.theoreticallycorrect.com/digital-audio/monitor-latency-solutions.html or will they still contain latency when tracking guitar and listening to playback at the same time?
 
Direct monitoring is the solution.

You should be listening to the kemper direct through your interface, not what's coming out of your DAW and this is what big studios do (on the most part). Even when you're looking at studios with massive SSL desks running into a DAW they are doing the same thing. Monitoring what's coming out of the desk directly (or a mix of both) rather than what's coming out of their DAW.

What you're trying to do is this:

Kemper>interface>daw>headphones

It should be like this:

Kemper>interface>headphones
Daw>interface>Headphones

Basically mix knob all the way left is top, all the way right is bottom so you blend to taste.

For now, try muting the track you're recording to to see if it stops it. It appears there is definitely a low latency monitoring mode (which essentially just mutes the track you're recording automatically) in Studio one but I've never used the DAW.
 
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Cheers ShortWarning. I'm starting to understand it now. So if a studio desk's monitoring is coming from the desk, whats feeding its sound? Surely it has to the DAW? If I'm a guitarist wanting to overdub a solo while listening to the backing guitar and a click, surely that has to come from the DAW back through the desk to the monitors and will introduce lag when I listen to the direct sound with the monitoring sound?
 
So the sound is essentially being pulled from 2 different sources (but into the same set of monitors/headphones in this case).

Say on your interface you set the mix nob to 50/50.

50% of the mix coming out of your interface is only what you have going into your inputs.
50% is only whats coming out of the daw.

If the track that you're recording to is not muted in the daw you essentially you have the guitar coming in, this is then being processed by the daw and being spat back out (which is what causes the latency).

If it's muted all you have is the 50% going in being spat out directly by the interface (so no latency or at least imperceptible) and 50% of whatever is coming out of your DAW (as the track you're recording to is muted you're just getting everything else).

One thing to note is that you should have too many plugins running while recording because this can add latency to what's coming out of your DAW which again throws things off.

Edit - just to clarify on your last question.

Direct into the interface - no latency
Direct out of daw (as long as you don't have too many plugins active) - no latency. You're using the mix nob to achieve a balance of these 2 things.
 
I have Ableton Live 10 Suite now. It's really excellent for warping, quite easy to use. I couldn't really get my head around the way Studio One does it. I'll continue to use Studio One for my recordings and Ableton for warping stuff.
 
I’m crushed by my job and not done anything in ages...For therapy I’ve been playing animals pink floyd on guitar and ukulele

I need to acquire a van, convert it and **** off around Europe for a year with my guitar laptop and collie dog.
 
ShortWarning said:
Recording interface information
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Thanks for the helpful info Short. I spent the other evening playing around with your suggestions and I think I've cracked it. I think the biggest problem was that I was monitoring the guitar input through the DAW and back out. I've yet to try any plugins on the other tracks, such as Impact for drums etc, but that's for another day. :)
 
Just been looking for my 1980s marshall practice amp with my old Boss DS-1 distortion and PS-2 Pitch Shift & Delay pedals in the back of the cabinet.

Can I find them? Nope.
 
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