Soldato
You said if society has billionaires then it's failed. So you believe there should be a cap on wealth. ie...no billionaires.
The ongoing Elon Twitter saga: "insert demographic" melts down
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You said if society has billionaires then it's failed. So you believe there should be a cap on wealth. ie...no billionaires.
Soldato
we'd still have billionaires in that situation though. half of a billionaires wealth is tied to business interests
Soldato
You can keep score, but I won't bore you with the other ideas as you've only seen it as black and white so anything more would complicate it.
What about this idea then, the richest can only earn x amount times the lowest? Does that not encourage growth? What's the issues with that?
Also don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it should happen, but something does need to be done and what that is, only God knows.
You clamp down on billionaires, and then they move their wealth to a country that doesn't clamp down, if they haven't already.
Elon Musk shouldn't have the amount of wealth he has. I think it's fair to say that he doesn't deserve 250 billion? If you disagree, did you think 2 years ago when he was worth say 50 billion, that he deserved another 200 on top?
Compare him to Jeff bezos, who serves essentially the entire planet, a force that is almost impossible to stop, no one can compete with their ecommerce ability, unless their name is dragged through the dirt, they will take over more and more industries. How is this guy less wealthy than Elon Musk? Has jeff not earned his 250 billion? Or does only Elon deserve it and worked for it?
It's a stupid amount of money, and even more stupid, he got a massive tax cut thanks to trump.
Soldato
What are these other ideas then? Explain
How does that encourage growth exactly? The country that implements that will get 3rd tier hires. Game theory, countries are competing with each other to attract the best talent.
It's out of Elon's control, half of it is tied to the company, the company hit $1200 share price in 2021, it's half that now as the FED remove accommodation and liquidity from the economy. He lost 12b yesterday.
Seems like you want to blame someone for something which isn't their fault. It's all nonsense bubble paper, that 250b is not real.
He's still a better allocator of capital than government. He provides more jobs, innovation, solutions and wealth to ordinary citizens than the government can.
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Soldato
You took the bait.
So yesterday people are giving Elon full credit for his wealth while others say, he's not entirely responsible due to various reasons, not a peep from you, now he loses 12billion in a day, and you're saying he's not responsible, only for the wins it seems.
Funny how only the other day Dowie was asking for examples of those that see Elon as some messiah that can do no wrong..
Theory, someone like Elon won't go to Germany to run a company just because he can't earn x above the lowest paid. Companies are also competing with each other to attract the best talent. You quickly rule out the idea that higher paid bottom earners, and every rolling benefit from that, would benefit the company, as though the top guy has to have all the wealth else the company will fail to attract talent.
There's some simple business understanding that you don't have, but you talk as though you not only understand the basics (which you don't appear to) but also that you're much more educated in the area. Obviously your job doesn't involve money and how businesses work which is fine, but you would benefit to get a little more understanding as you talk so much like its black and white, when theres so much in between that you can't even comprehend.
Soldato
What are you on about? I wasn't reading the thread when people were talking about that. I've no idea what you're on about.
Just fluff as usual from you. You never say anything of any worth or meaning, you're basically a troll.. I've asked you to explain your position, you haven't. Explain since you have so much expertise how regulating CEO to worker pay and a wealth cap will generate more growth? Don't forget to talk about industry disparities as well, high volume low profit margin compared to low volume high profit margin, That's makes big difference, doesnt it?
The floor is yours
Edit.
Actually, lets provide an example. KO
Median worker pay - $11000
CEO take home pay - $18 million
Ratio - 1600 to 1.
What should the ratio be? 25 to 1? So the CEO's take home pay should be 275k? Running a company with 35b in revenue..
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Why resort to being condescending? I know full well how their net worth is calculated.
My point is that Elon is nothing special in the grand scheme of things. He's a good salesman and manipulator. We need less of those kinds of people having extreme wealth.
The issues you listed are directly a consequence of the greed by those at the top (in fact a lot of the world's problems are due to that).
I would advocate for legislation enforcing fair and reasonable profit share/renumeration throughout all large companies. No more executives/owners disproportionately taking immensely more money than those they employ. Obviously positions that require better education and skills would have a higher salary. No problem with that. Its the massive gulf that is the problem.
Soldato
Has Microsoft been a better company since Bill Gates left the helm, has Apple? Tech needs these entrepreneurs and visionaries it seems. NASA would have spent far more than the money supplied to Musk for SpaceX projects and probably for an inferior product. So he is a bit weird, wired differently, he brings products to market and they are successful if not perfect. PayPal was a great fit for the Internet when shopping became prevalent and Elon made a bundle which he has built on with markets he likes and he spends big. History is full of such people. I do hope he buys twitter and kicks ass.
Both companies continue to grow... so yes?
That's the minimal context answer. If I were to question whether it's being milked by finance bros instead of engineers who care about making good products then I'm likely to agree that both companies leadership are declining in quality.
That's the minimal context answer. If I were to question whether it's being milked by finance bros instead of engineers who care about making good products then I'm likely to agree that both companies leadership are declining in quality.
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Trying to explain to people in here how and why people like Elon Musk, Bill Gates, Jeff Bezos etc are visionaries contributing massively to the success of humans and our development is like trying to explain the colour orange to a person born blind since birth. They just can't take it on board, they're so far gone and so deeply closed minded it's pointless. They're obsessed with blaming people who are well off and who they perceive as having power for all the problems in the world. Imagine telling someone that the thing they created is now too successful and that they should give most of it away.
really what did bezos contribute? tax stealing, minimum wage jobs that killed of millions of small businesses and left trhe high street full of gambling/pound shops?
what's musk done? wow EV that will benefit a few wealthy members of society, all on the back of government grants, same as bezos and his grants.
atleast bill gates gave something the world actually needed without getting the rest of the world to subsidise it.
still turned into prat though thinking he should shepherd humanity with his GMO crap, buying farmland and trying to wipe out the meat industry.
Most people love a rag to riches story, through hard work or invention. What people dislike is people growing wealthy by exploiting low paid workers or horrible working conditions.
Musk and bezos have done both, I'm not sure about gates
Tractors killed off Horses, omg. Tesla made twice as many EV's as every other car company combined in America while having access to the same government grants they did, some how Tesla was more successful. You're complaining an electric car company made use of government grants that you probably wanted in the first place. Where is the clown emoji?
Soldato
Can you explain to us how Bezos has contributed massively to the success of humans and our development? Now I use Amazon and have a Prime account because its great for purchasing stuff I want but I fail to see how Amazon contributed massively to the success of humans and our development. He pays terrible wages, terrible working conditions, actively fighting workers attempts to unionise by planting management staff in warehouses pretending to be warehouse staff that then lobby against unionisation. The list goes on and on. Now I'm not claiming to be contributed massively to the success of humans and our development, so I'm not being a hypocrite here, you made the claim and its a huge claim, so back it up.
Soldato
Why are you on a phone/tablet/computer in that case, what about the toxic materials used in those or is that "different".
Yes, it would be nice if we had perfected personal and industrial transportation methods to where they use fully non-toxic materials while not polluting the environment at all. What is this ridiculous critique? Someone is bringing electric vehicles to the mass market and making them more affordable and forcing other car manufacturers to actually take the EV industry seriously, but the materials currently required for this aren't also perfectly environmentally friendly? We should just stop all technology then because computers also contain all or most of these materials you're complaining about.
"wasn't musks dad or someone one of them blood diamond people"
Yeah I can but I'd get better responses if I went and visited the local farm petting Zoo so I'll not bother, I have done before.
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