The ongoing Elon Twitter saga: "insert demographic" melts down

[Jono8]

What is being ignored, or missed entirely by those defending Gina Carano, is that she has had previous contentious social media posts that did not result in her being sacked. So her views were tolerated for a long time as having right wing views is not a sackable offense of course.

What finally got her sacked was comparing outspoken Republicans being verbally abused on social media, to the persecution of Jews during the holocaust.

Indeed. On the one hand, we have republicans being told that they are stupid and horrible for their objectively stupid and horrible viewpoints.

On the other hand we have a whole race/religion of people being enslaved/gassed or shot to death on the instruction of the state.

It was an incredibly stupid and offensive comparison to make.

 

[Jono8]

I think a lot of things happened to the Jews in the 1930s prior to outright death camps, they didn't go from running businesses and being normal members of society to being dragged out of their homes and gassed. They were demonised and persecuted, while I don't think it's the best analogy, I can at least see where she's coming from.

The trouble is, Trump and MAGA is objectively horrible.

Anyone who supports Trump is either stupid, ignorant or just plain evil.

I'm done with people trying to frame it as though it's just a different opinion. It's not.

I don't have any problem with some conservative views. In fact I hold political opinions that would be considered more on the right end of the spectrum myself.

However the new breed of conservativeness/right wing politics that Trump has brought into America is something else entirely and deserves to be demonised.

 

[PlacidCasual]

Anyone who supports Trump is either stupid, ignorant or just plain evil.

Someone says that horrific acts don't happen in a vacuum that first you must create an environment where the victims are hated. They then suggest that people are now being othered on the basis not of race but political views. How delusional can you be to think that people would be othered on the basis of their political views.

 

[Colonel_Klinck]

How is Musk allowed to own a platform like Twitter and be so overtly political?

For the same reasons Murdoch was allowed to own massive chucks of the press and TV news for decades and use them for his own political aims. $

 

[Murphy]

They then suggest that people are now being othered on the basis not of race but political views. How delusional can you be to think that people would be othered on the basis of their political views.

So if someone's political view is that westerners should be killed is it wrong to other them?

What about if someone's political view is not as extreme and they just hold the view that westerners shouldn't be allowed to do something that doubles their chances of an early death?

How about something even less extreme and they just hold the view that westerners shouldn't be allowed to tell them not to 'liberate', at the end of a gun, an independent democratic country?

Is it wrong to other on the basis of their political views?

e: BTW I'm not saying i disagree with you, i do think it's wrong to 'other' people. I'm just trying to establish where you draw the line.

 

[jigger]

How is Musk allowed to own a platform like Twitter and be so overtly political?

It’s not really Musk that owns Twitter.

 

[jigger]

The trouble is, Trump and MAGA is objectively horrible.

Anyone who supports Trump is either stupid, ignorant or just plain evil.

I'm done with people trying to frame it as though it's just a different opinion. It's not.

I don't have any problem with some conservative views. In fact I hold political opinions that would be considered more on the right end of the spectrum myself.

However the new breed of conservativeness/right wing politics that Trump has brought into America is something else entirely and deserves to be demonised.

Behind every unhinged leader in history we see one common driving force and that’s a whole lot of emotionally compromised stupid people.

 

[ICDP]

Someone says that horrific acts don't happen in a vacuum that first you must create an environment where the victims are hated. They then suggest that people are now being othered on the basis not of race but political views. How delusional can you be to think that people would be othered on the basis of their political views.

This is a classic deflection technique. People who hold outright racist and horrible views and when called out they use the “freedom of speech”, or the “I’m being persecuted for my political beliefs”.

 

[PlacidCasual]

Except of course there are many people who think ANYONE who votes Trump is evil, ignorant, stupid or deplorable. We're not talking edge case white supremacists or ultra nationalists but 40%+ of the US voting population. Someone has lost their livelihood for suggesting that labelling large proportions of people who don't share your political views as hateful. Who is doing the deflecting here?

 

[Jono8]

Except of course there are many people who think ANYONE who votes Trump is evil, ignorant, stupid or deplorable.

Which is objectively correct. You have to be at least one of those things to vote for him.

 

[Murphy]

Except of course there are many people who think ANYONE who votes Trump is evil, ignorant, stupid or deplorable.

To be able to make that claim, that many people think ANYONE, you'd need evidence of it. You don't have that so your as guilty of othering people as those you're decrying.

Which is objectively correct. You have to be at least one of those things to vote for him.

Is it? I've never seen polling or something like that on what people think of those who votes for Trump.

 

[PlacidCasual]

You don't have that so your as guilty of othering people as those you're decrying.

Enlighten me, how am I othering them by simply making the claim that their are many people who think ANYONE who votes Trump is deplorable etc.

 

[Murphy]

Enlighten me, how am I othering them by simply making the claim that their are many people who think ANYONE who votes Trump is deplorable etc.

So you didn't treat many people as though they are not part of a group and are different in some way? You didn't stereotype? You didn't point out the differences between large groups of people? You didn't basically say there's people who vote for Trump and many people who think ANYONE who votes Trump is evil, ignorant, stupid or deplorable?

What do you think 'othering' is?

 

[PlacidCasual]

So you didn't treat many people as though they are not part of a group and are different in some way? You didn't stereotype? You didn't point out the differences between large groups of people? You didn't basically say there's people who vote for Trump and many people who think ANYONE who votes Trump is evil, ignorant, stupid or deplorable?

What do you think 'othering' is?

Thank you for that very clear example you made your point effortlessly.

 

[Murphy]

Thank you for that very clear example you made your point effortlessly.

Hence my edit where i said...

e: BTW I'm not saying i disagree with you, i do think it's wrong to 'other' people. I'm just trying to establish where you draw the line.

 

[ICDP]

Except of course there are many people who think ANYONE who votes Trump is evil, ignorant, stupid or deplorable. We're not talking edge case white supremacists or ultra nationalists but 40%+ of the US voting population. Someone has lost their livelihood for suggesting that labelling large proportions of people who don't share your political views as hateful. Who is doing the deflecting here?

If you mean Carano has lost her livelihood for suggesting that labelling large proportions of people who don't share your political views as hateful, then you are being disingenuous. Because no... no she didn't lose her job for that.

She lost her job for comparing being labelled as hateful for your political views, to what the Jews went through during years of terrible and violent persecution in Nazi Germany.

People being mean to you on twitter is not and cannot be compared to being dragged out onto the street and beaten to death for being Jewish. She had a long history of not being sacked for her right wing views prior to this comparison that proves her political views did in fact, NOT GET HER SACKED.

Can you at least acknowledge her idiotoc and crass comparison was why she got sacked, not her political opinion?

If this as a left wing liberal making these kind of comparisons it would be just as idiotic and crass.

 

[Roar87]

If you mean Carano has lost her livelihood for suggesting that labelling large proportions of people who don't share your political views as hateful, then you are being disingenuous. Because no... no she didn't lose her hob for that.

She lost her job for comparing being labelled as hateful for your political views, to what the Jews went through during years of terrible and violent persecution in Nazi Germany.

People being mean to you on twitter is not and cannot be compared to being dragged out onto the street and beaten to death for being Jewish. She had a long history of not being sacked for her right wing views prior to this comparison that proves her political views did in fact, NOT GET HER SACKED.

Can you at least acknowledge her idiotoc and crass comparison was why she got sacked, not her political opinion?

If this as a left wing liberal making these kind of comparisons it would be just as idiotic and crass.

Are you not reading the thread?

An awful lot happened between Jews being normal members of society and Jews being murdered. Political persecution was one of the starting points of the Holocaust in the early 1930s, it didn't go straight from Jews owning businesses and being largely accepted to them being shot and put in camps.

I wonder why people struggle so much with the nuance of situations, I can only assume it's willful ignorance.

 

[Roar87]

The trouble is, Trump and MAGA is objectively horrible.

MAGA stands for Make America Great Again, a perfectly acceptable stance to a lot of Americans who see the absolute state large parts of their country have become, yet see America putting large amounts of money into foreign affairs. I'm sorry you can't understand why people in America might vote for Donald Trump, but perhaps that's a 'you' issue rather than them.

Anyone who supports Trump is either stupid, ignorant or just plain evil.

Again this is a 'you not understanding' thing, perhaps if you employed some empathy and understanding instead of taking this toxic route people wouldn't be able to make analogies to the 1930s.

I'm done with people trying to frame it as though it's just a different opinion. It's not.

Yeah, maybe you need a final solution to the MAGA problem?

I don't have any problem with some conservative views. In fact I hold political opinions that would be considered more on the right end of the spectrum myself.

Wow lol

However the new breed of conservativeness/right wing politics that Trump has brought into America is something else entirely and deserves to be demonised.

Yeah, I think most us feel the same way about the woke mind virus, yet we aren't trying to get people fired/cancelled calling them "objectively evil" etc.

 

[Jono8]

MAGA stands for Make America Great Again, a perfectly acceptable stance to a lot of Americans who see the absolute state large parts of their country have become, yet see America putting large amounts of money into foreign affairs. I'm sorry you can't understand why people in America might vote for Donald Trump, but perhaps that's a 'you' issue rather than them.



Again this is a 'you not understanding' thing, perhaps if you employed some empathy and understanding instead of taking this toxic route people wouldn't be able to make analogies to the 1930s.



Yeah, maybe you need a final solution to the MAGA problem?



Wow lol



Yeah, I think most us feel the same way about the woke mind virus, yet we aren't trying to get people fired/cancelled calling them "objectively evil" etc.

Nope.

Trump's behaviour is unacceptable and it's totally ridiculous that he still has so much support.

He's facing having his businesses taken away and a huge fine shortly. He's also facing 91 criminal indictments as well. He's also objectively a terrible moronic individual.

There is nothing to "understand" other than the fact that Trump supporters are supporting a walking embodiment of almost every personality disorder and bad personality trait imaginable.

 

[jeffk]

Are you not reading the thread?

An awful lot happened between Jews being normal members of society and Jews being murdered. Political persecution was one of the starting points of the Holocaust in the early 1930s, it didn't go straight from Jews owning businesses and being largely accepted to them being shot and put in camps.

This line of reasoning trivialises the holocaust and antisemitism in general. The Jews (and especially the “east Jews”) never had the luxury of being considered normal members of society

Surely no-one here thinks that the (rightful or wrongful) demonisation of the MAGA movement will lead to people being rounded up into concentration camps.