The ongoing Elon Twitter saga: "insert demographic" melts down

Status
Not open for further replies.
Roar87 said:
"So you're saying" - okay Kathy Newman. I'm actually saying if you set gender and race targets then naturally you will not be hiring based on merit, and in the case of this particular BBC commentator it is obvious she is not in her position based on merit because she is poor at her job, refuses to accept any criticism - which has also been the case historically, and instead blames it on racism and plays the victim card where ever possible. She actually just cannot stand criticism.

What do you think happens at a job interview when you tell managers they need to hit targets for recruitment based on gender and race?

Oh never mind, we've seen first hand https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-66060490
Click to expand...

I can name a few crap white men pundits. Are they there because there are white and men? You’re default seem to be when you don’t like a pundit/person is to see if you can bring their sex and skin colour into it. Maybe some people like what she has to say? I don’t but then there are a lot of pundits I think are crap and talk ****. I don’t feel the need to bring their sex and skin colour into it though.
 
Reporting checklist for Twitterx. Notice anything interesting?

96384k.png


4182st.png


zisx84.png


That's right, there's no option report misinformation, the single most damaging content on the platform, and the one thing guaranteed to drive engagement.
 
Roar87 said:
There are no targets to hire white men lol. It isn't the same.
Click to expand...

But there were likely hired because they were white and men. That was the default for years. You are saying that any BAME person hired has it hanging over them that they were only hired because they fall into that demographic. That that is your default thought says a lot about you.
 
Colonel_Klinck said:
But there were likely hired because they were white and men. That was the default for years. You are saying that any BAME person hired has it hanging over them that they were only hired because they fall into that demographic. That that is your default thought says a lot about you.
Click to expand...

There is an important distinction here. They weren't hired because they were white males, it was a case of people who weren't white males not being hired. There is a difference. Its the same when you hire someone because they are not white male. In both cases its discrimination/positive discrimination towards BAME individuals.

The problem is that yes, when companies intentionally try to hit quotas of certain ethnicities in their staffing they are almost certainly not hiring based on merit. You cannot hire on merit if you discriminate against any group, especially not the majority group in a country. This is why its such a tricky issue to address. All these things should/would take years to rectify if they were not hiring people based on their ethnicity to bump their numbers. To say otherwise is just being blind. Unfortunately there is no "fair" way to fix these historic injustices quickly.

People have very differing views on positive discrimination though. Very different.
 
Colonel_Klinck said:
But there were likely hired because they were white and men. That was the default for years. You are saying that any BAME person hired has it hanging over them that they were only hired because they fall into that demographic. That that is your default thought says a lot about you.
Click to expand...

Why do so many people always attack posters like that? The fact you default to attacking posters and assuming prejudice says a lot about you I think.

The default position of hiring "white men" is because the UK is largely a white country, and the demographics at places like the BBC where you actually need to be fairly well educated and have relevant experience doesn't just change over night. This also applies to jobs at the RAF and similar places by the way. There's so much focus race and gender, yet I bet if I were to look at how many white males from poor backgrounds were hired by the likes of the BBC and the RAF it would be shockingly low as well. Yet ironically poor white males will be looked at as if they have some inherent privilege. You would actually need to think wholistically when you're judging who might deserve a position due to some historical prejudice, take into account the entire circumstance of each individual applying, maybe the white guy was brought up by a single mother on free school meals, maybe the Black guys parents were both Doctors and come from a wealthy family; either that or just hire on merit? Probably the easiest solution.
 
Sankari said:
Reporting checklist for Twitterx. Notice anything interesting?

That's right, there's no option report misinformation, the single most damaging content on the platform, and the one thing guaranteed to drive engagement.
Click to expand...

That's what Community Notes was set up to do, the more viral a misinformation post is the higher the chance it is going to get noticed. Sure there will be CT nuts with small audiences just taking to their echo chamber but if something gets significant attention and it's completely wrong then it can be corrected with links directly below the post explaining the incorrect info - this includes adverts too (amusingly).

The added impact of getting community notes is that any post that does get noted isn't included in revenue sharing, so any accounts trying to make money on twitter with viral posts have a strong incentive to not spread such posts as they don't gain from it vs if they'd made other viral posts instead.

Ultimately moderating say a violet threat is far simpler for Twitter likewise hiding nudity from most of the user base is simpler for them, misinformation can easily get conflated with opinion or political views or can include things in dispute - for example, previously people were getting into trouble over the lab leak hypotheses re: Covid when that's still a plausible explanation for the origin of the pandemic.
 
Last edited:
Colonel_Klinck said:
But there were likely hired because they were white and men. That was the default for years. You are saying that any BAME person hired has it hanging over them that they were only hired because they fall into that demographic. That that is your default thought says a lot about you.
Click to expand...

Not really.

Pundits have been hired as they were former professional football players, for example on match of the day. There have been both white and black pundits, and also non-british pundits.

Eni Aluko is a pundit as she's a professional football player. I haven't seen any evidence she is a "diversity hire" or whatever the expression is. If that evidence exist (@Roar87 ), I'd like to see it.
 
Last edited:
potatolord said:
Not really.

Pundits have been hired as they were former professional football players, for example on match of the day. There have been both white and black pundits, and also non-british pundits.

Eni Aluko is a pundit as she's a professional football player. I haven't seen any evidence she is a "diversity hire" or whatever the expression is. If that evidence exist (@Roar87 ), I'd like to see it.
Click to expand...

How would anyone get evidence of that? lol. Again, this an internet forum, not a court room.
 
Last edited:
Roar87 said:
How would anyone get evidence of that? lol. Again, this an internet forum, not a court room.
Click to expand...

Generally, if someone makes a statement, the responsibility is on them to explain and provide evidence supporting it.

If you're going on feelings and guesses alone, that is, frankly, rubbish. It's no wonder you get beaten up on here.*


*and I am one of those who has written posts complaining about the beatings in the recent past. Ah well, I'm learning, eh?
 
potatolord said:
Generally, if someone makes a statement, the responsibility is on them to explain and provide evidence supporting it.

If you're going on feelings and guesses alone, that is, frankly, rubbish. It's no wonder you get beaten up on here.*


*and I am one of those who has written posts complaining about the beatings in the recent past. Ah well, I'm learning, eh?
Click to expand...

It's my opinion based on the fact that she's a bit rubbish and the fact that the BBC has gender and race targets. There are plenty of great commentators who are black by the way, Ian Wright and Micah Richards are brilliant imo.
 
Last edited:
Roar87 said:
It's my opinion based on the fact that she's a bit rubbish and the BBC has gender and race targets. There are plenty of great commentators who are black by the way, Ian Wright and Micah Richards are brilliant imo.
Click to expand...

Jesus wept.

Her being "a bit rubbish" isn't a fact- it's your opinion.

Why do you have an issue with her specifically? Is it because you don't like women?
 
fez said:
There is an important distinction here. They weren't hired because they were white males, it was a case of people who weren't white males not being hired. There is a difference. Its the same when you hire someone because they are not white male. In both cases its discrimination/positive discrimination towards BAME individuals.

The problem is that yes, when companies intentionally try to hit quotas of certain ethnicities in their staffing they are almost certainly not hiring based on merit. You cannot hire on merit if you discriminate against any group, especially not the majority group in a country. This is why its such a tricky issue to address. All these things should/would take years to rectify if they were not hiring people based on their ethnicity to bump their numbers. To say otherwise is just being blind. Unfortunately there is no "fair" way to fix these historic injustices quickly.

People have very differing views on positive discrimination though. Very different.
Click to expand...

Yes hiring white as default is no better than hiring NAME to fit a quota. There were likely better candidates that weren't ever considered because they weren't the default.
 
potatolord said:
Not really.

Pundits have been hired as they were former professional football players, for example on match of the day. There have been both white and black pundits, and also non-british pundits.

Eni Aluko is a pundit as she's a professional football player. I haven't seen any evidence she is a "diversity hire" or whatever the expression is. If that evidence exist (@Roar87 ), I'd like to see it.
Click to expand...

For years there were no black pundits. Yes its become the norm in the past few years and some are great, others not so much.

I don't believe she is a diversity hire either, I just don't think she is a very good pundit but that is the case for plenty of men as well.
 
Roar87 said:
Why do so many people always attack posters like that? The fact you default to attacking posters and assuming prejudice says a lot about you I think.
Click to expand...

"Alexa order some more Kleenex please." You really can be cry baby on this. You make claims and call out people due to your opinions but when those opinions are reflected back at you you claim to be all upset. And you love to through out similar "insults". You really do like to dish it out but can't take it, more than any other posters on OCUK.

Roar87 said:
The default position of hiring "white men" is because the UK is largely a white country, and the demographics at places like the BBC where you actually need to be fairly well educated and have relevant experience doesn't just change over night. This also applies to jobs at the RAF and similar places by the way. There's so much focus race and gender, yet I bet if I were to look at how many white males from poor backgrounds were hired by the likes of the BBC and the RAF it would be shockingly low as well. Yet ironically poor white males will be looked at as if they have some inherent privilege. You would actually need to think wholistically when you're judging who might deserve a position due to some historical prejudice, take into account the entire circumstance of each individual applying, maybe the white guy was brought up by a single mother on free school meals, maybe the Black guys parents were both Doctors and come from a wealthy family; either that or just hire on merit? Probably the easiest solution.
Click to expand...

The Premier League hasn't been majority white for decades. I don't care about the RAF, we are talking about the BBC and pundit hires here.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom