The Rangers Saga and Fallout Thread

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chameleon said:
I have asked this before to no avail but how can Green buy assets reputedly worth up to £115 million for only £5.5? Surely this is why HMRC want to appoint their own liquidator? To get the best price possible and to have a clearly independant investigation into the whole sorry mess.
Well, that and the fact they clearly don't trust DnP as far as they can throw them.

Also, wasn't Whyte charging vat and paye while he was in charge and not passing it on to HMRC? Sounds like clear cut fraud to me. Where did those millions go? A secret account in Monaco???
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HMRC want to go after Murray/Whyte and apparently the CVA wouldn't allow them to do that so it didn't matter how much was offered. The HMRC liquidator will allow further investigation into the fraud going on, which suggests to me HMRC have won the big tax case.

It's all pointing towards criminal prosecutions once everyone gets their acts together.
 
Stoopid iPhone.
I suppose if Green does buy the assets it gives Rangers the best (only?) chance to survive. Still think Green is only in it for Green though.
Puts the ball firmly back in the SFA/SPL net though as to what happens to them after that. SPL with lots of strings attached or work their way back up from Div 3?
 
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They're only worth £115m if someone pays that. HMRC must have put feelers out to get valuations and any idea of interest. Presumably the Blue Knights would be back in contention to buy the SPL license and Ibrox now.
 
Metalface Mark said:
The fans need to sort it out and band together for the newco, forget Green and his cronies who will attempt to extort as much money as possible out of it, you need guys in place with the clubs interest in heart, not what they can get out of it.

The Blue Knights should be coming back into this now, whether they are the best solution or not, they at least have Rangers interest at heart which no other bidder has.
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As much as i like to highlight any mistakes you make, i feel i also need to comment on posts you make that are decent.

This is one of them. You are 100% right.
 
chameleon said:
I have asked this before to no avail but how can Green buy assets reputedly worth up to £115 million for only £5.5? Surely this is why HMRC want to appoint their own liquidator? To get the best price possible and to have a clearly independant investigation into the whole sorry mess.
Well, that and the fact they clearly don't trust DnP as far as they can throw them.

Also, wasn't Whyte charging vat and paye while he was in charge and not passing it on to HMRC? Sounds like clear cut fraud to me. Where did those millions go? A secret account in Monaco???
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They appoint their own liquidator to pursue the people who got the OLD co into this state. They have already said in their view it was better for the taxpayer to liquidate the company and for the club to exist as a newco. They see more value in chasing the culprits than any return they would get from assets otherwise they would not have agree'd to the clause I posted earlier.

However I'm not HMRC but there must be a reason to agreeing to the assets being sold for 5.5 million. Maybe they didnt have an option. Remember they are having laws changed so that prepack administrations cant happen in future. Maybe this is why.
 
Jokester said:
They're only worth £115m if someone pays that. HMRC must have put feelers out to get valuations and any idea of interest. Presumably the Blue Knights would be back in contention to buy the SPL license and Ibrox now.
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I would be surpised if it was only the Blue Knights.

The problem is, it now defaults to a £5.5m Newco takeover of club and assets to Green`s consortium. There is no option for a 3rd party to now get involved.

They/We all had our chance, only Green stepped up and played.
 
Jokester said:
They're only worth £115m if someone pays that. HMRC must have put feelers out to get valuations and any idea of interest. Presumably the Blue Knights would be back in contention to buy the SPL license and Ibrox now.
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Nope think under the CVA Green buys the assets for 5.5 million no other bids can come in at this "late stage"
 
McRod said:
As much as i like to highlight any mistakes you make, i feel i also need to comment on posts you make that are decent.

This is one of them. You are 100% right.
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Actually well said. Mark is 100% correct (for a change ;) ) However I doubt TBK are the answer they didnt have the money and their entire CVA had ludicrous clauses in it. However as a newco theres nothing to stop them from putting their money(????) where there mnouth is and buy shares in the newco.
 
chameleon said:
I have asked this before to no avail but how can Green buy assets reputedly worth up to £115 million for only £5.5? Surely this is why HMRC want to appoint their own liquidator? To get the best price possible and to have a clearly independant investigation into the whole sorry mess.
Well, that and the fact they clearly don't trust DnP as far as they can throw them.

Also, wasn't Whyte charging vat and paye while he was in charge and not passing it on to HMRC? Sounds like clear cut fraud to me. Where did those millions go? A secret account in Monaco???
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Where is the £115m worth of assets? We have covered this before. Players contracts are Null and void. On Thursday Rangers will have no players.

The Stadium and Training ground are worthless, well....ok not worthless but worth no more than any other derelict ground in or around Glasgow of which there are literally hectares waiting for someone to buy them.

HMRC will now have the power to appoint their liquidator who can now legally mount a challenge to any individual(s) who illegally avoided paying the taxes.

I have a feeling however than Murray & Whyte will be untouchable. I`d be surpised if they HMRC found anything on them that could stick.

It seems HMRC despise Whyte and i reckon if Whyte still wasn`t involved in some capactiy they may have given the CVA some more consideration.

I still have an immense feeling of relief. Before things could get better, they had to get dramatically worse....and this is as bad as it gets.

What doesn`t kill you makes you stronger and soon we will see the green shoots of recovery and light at the end of the tunnel for the long suffering, paid up good fans who follow Rangers.
 
McMav said:
However as a newco theres nothing to stop them from putting their money(????) where there mnouth is and buy shares in the newco.
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Duff & Phelp`s statement said the following...

As we have stated previously, there is a binding contract between ourselves as administrators and Charles Green, who is leading a consortium to acquire the Club.

"The creditors' and shareholders' meetings will take place at Ibrox on Thursday but the results of those meetings will now be entirely academic given HMRC's decision.

"As soon as the CVA proposal is formally rejected, Mr Green's consortium will move towards completion of an acquisition of the business and assets of The Rangers Football Club plc. That transaction will be completed within a few days.

"The sum payable to creditors will be £5.5 million, most of which has already been paid over to us by the Green consortium.
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BTC is an oldco liability, Murray could be held responsible though as a Director.

I'm begininning to see a real possibility of Rangers not playing any league next season.

Edit: HMRC/Ticketus could challenge that agreement if they think that Duff & Duffer aren't meeting their legal obligation to offer creditors the best return.
 
chameleon said:
If a newco forms, does that make the BTC a moot point or would HMRC have to chase Murray and Whyte (for the STC) to get the money?
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From what I have read HMRC have a general principal to chase the tax evaders.

Green in his statement today questioned the logic as he does not believe HMRC will get any more money than the CVA route. However he is missing the point I get from the HMRC statement which basically says any money returns are secondary to bringing criminal charges against those involved.
 
Full statement from HMRC
"A liquidation provides the best opportunity to protect taxpayers, by allowing the potential investigation and pursuit of possible claims against those responsible for the company’s financial affairs in recent years. A CVA would restrict the scope of such action. Moreover the liquidation route does not prejudice the proposed sale of the club. This sale can take place either through a CVA or a liquidation.

So the sale is not being undermined, it simply takes a different route. Liquidation will enable a sale of the football assets to be made to a new company, thereby ensuring that football will continue at Ibrox. It also means that the new company will be free from claims or litigation in a way which would not be achievable with a CVA. Rangers can make a fresh start."
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/news/rangers.htm
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It would appear from that that they are happy witht he NewCo route so I dont see them standing in the way.
 
McMav said:
Full statement from HMRC


It would appear from that that they are happy witht he NewCo route so I dont see them standing in the way.
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Thats a refreshing statement.

They are making it very clear they want Murray and Whyte`s head on platter.

I`d be very surpised if they can though, Murray and Whyte are too slippery and for all intents and purposes are protected by having Ltd liabilities.
 
McRod said:
Thats a refreshing statement.

They are making it very clear they want Murray and Whyte`s head on platter.

I`d be very surpised if they can though, Murray and Whyte are too slippery and for all intents and purposes are protected by having Ltd liabilities.
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Thats how I read it. Hopefully they get both of them and they spend many years getting bummed in jail. :D
 
So the boot is finally on the other foot, Rangers now need the help of the other 11 clubs in the SPL to survive, this is the same clubs that the Rangers fans have threatened to boycott, among them Dundee United, St Mirren, St Johnstone who's chairmen have all been vocal.

You ever think these little shows of throwing fan weight around is going to come back and bite them on the bum? :)
 
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