The Rangers Saga and Fallout Thread

[chameleon]

Well it is a little unfair to blame the entire team under corporate culpability. Especially as one or two guys were ultimately responsible and that's where the buck should ultimately stop.
Didn't Gretna end up in the same position, albeit by a somewhat different route. They got dumped to the bottom league. Should Rangers be treated any differently just because they have more fans?

 

[semi-pro waster]

It should have been in the media from day one that HMRC wouldn't have voted for any CVA as they wanted to investigate the ex-directors and the running of the club. For all the publicity given to the various groups at the end of the day none of them would have been accepted giving false hope to the fans.

The CVA process has wasted everyone's time and should have concentrated on the newco process at the end of the season where now we have officials panicking at the prospect of no Rangers in the top division.

I don't know if you mean that HMRC should put out such a statement but they might well either have a policy of not commenting on ongoing investigations or possibly were trying not to prejudice the case unnecessarily.

If you mean the media themselves should have pointed out that it was extremely unlikely for HMRC to accept a CVA since they've not yet accepted one from a football club then maybe that's a point. Then again you'd have to wonder why the administrators thought it worth pursuing if they were engaged to act in the best interests of the business, it's one thing attempting a CVA that has a reasonable chance of success but it would seem to be quite another if blind optimism is all that is fuelling the attempt.

Well it is a little unfair to blame the entire team under corporate culpability. Especially as one or two guys were ultimately responsible and that's where the buck should ultimately stop.
Didn't Gretna end up in the same position, albeit by a somewhat different route. They got dumped to the bottom league. Should Rangers be treated any differently just because they have more fans?

It might just be one of those rumours that surfaces from time to time but I have heard it suggested that Livingston would consider legal action if Rangers do not face the same sanctions that they did for insolvency.

 

[afraser2k]

Well it is a little unfair to blame the entire team under corporate culpability. Especially as one or two guys were ultimately responsible and that's where the buck should ultimately stop.
Didn't Gretna end up in the same position, albeit by a somewhat different route. They got dumped to the bottom league. Should Rangers be treated any differently just because they have more fans?

The Gretna situation should have set a precedent for future liquidation of clubs. They were relegated at the end of the season and then the SFL gave them a weeks deadline to complete a takeover. Rangers will be given every opportunity to get back into the SPL due to their financial clout hence the moving of the newco vote from the board to the clubs.

 

[afraser2k]

I don't know if you mean that HMRC should put out such a statement but they might well either have a policy of not commenting on ongoing investigations or possibly were trying not to prejudice the case unnecessarily.

If you mean the media themselves should have pointed out that it was extremely unlikely for HMRC to accept a CVA since they've not yet accepted one from a football club then maybe that's a point. Then again you'd have to wonder why the administrators thought it worth pursuing if they were engaged to act in the best interests of the business, it's one thing attempting a CVA that has a reasonable chance of success but it would seem to be quite another if blind optimism is all that is fuelling the attempt.

A combination of all parties involved I think. The administrators should've known the CVA was unlikely to succeed and the media should have investigated all the different rules involved in the process instead of spouting their usual agendas. I also think HMRC should have told everyone from day one that if the CVA blocked any potential investigations then they'd block it.

 

[lordfletch]

Then again you'd have to wonder why the administrators thought it worth pursuing if they were engaged to act in the best interests of the business, it's one thing attempting a CVA that has a reasonable chance of success but it would seem to be quite another if blind optimism is all that is fuelling the attempt.

are they not employed to ensure the best return for the creditors ? also maybe carrying on with the pretense that a cva was possible was to achieve this. there may well be more twists here.

 

[Jokester]

It might just be one of those rumours that surfaces from time to time but I have heard it suggested that Livingston would consider legal action if Rangers do not face the same sanctions that they did for insolvency.

It was on the BBC news a couple of months ago that Livingston were going to sue the SFA for £1.2m if Rangers aren't treated the same way they were.

 

[Metalface Mark]

Thing with both Gretna and Livingston was that they were relegated anyway by being bottom, so the SfL then punted them to the third division.

 

[eddiemcgarrigle]

Had to chuckle at this being posted on facebook.

Four men had a dream
To start a football team
They had no money, no strips not even a ball
140 years later they have even less.

 

[TheGamingGeneral]

Had to chuckle at this being posted on facebook.

Four men had a dream
To start a football team
They had no money, no strips not even a ball
140 years later they have even less.

I think you are forgetting, they are the people. Silly sellick supportah

 

[semi-pro waster]

A combination of all parties involved I think. The administrators should've known the CVA was unlikely to succeed and the media should have investigated all the different rules involved in the process instead of spouting their usual agendas. I also think HMRC should have told everyone from day one that if the CVA blocked any potential investigations then they'd block it.

I'd agree that the process could have been handled a lot better all round.

are they not employed to ensure the best return for the creditors ? also maybe carrying on with the pretense that a cva was possible was to achieve this. there may well be more twists here.

Sorry, that was careless of me, I should have said it was to ensure the best deal for the creditors rather than the business but I'm still thinking in terms of stakeholders and business whereby it broadly amounts to the same thing. It might be interesting to see how much money has been expended on the CVA process vs what could/would have been available if they didn't pursue that route.

It was on the BBC news a couple of months ago that Livingston were going to sue the SFA for £1.2m if Rangers aren't treated the same way they were.

Thanks for the clarification, I'm almost impressed with their restraint if £1.2m is all they'd sue for. I'd have thought SPL football would have been worth more to them.

 

[piggeh]

Rangers being relegated to division three would be good for Scottish football, large away crowd to all the third division clubs would give them all an income boost.

Amazed Rangers are allowed to vote on their own membership to the SPL though.

 

[McMav]

So it seems sky are poised to tear up their TV deal after all if Rangers go out of spl.

 

[McRod]

So it seems sky are poised to tear up their TV deal after all if Rangers go out of spl.

Ach thats not a problem for the other clubs as they don't need us or SKY.

Division 3 for me, imagine all those 3pm saturday kick offs, visiting all those wee away grounds and winning our 55th title against Queen`s park at Hampden.

I`m actually looking forward to it.

 

[McRod]

Rangers being relegated to division three would be good for Scottish football, large away crowd to all the third division clubs would give them all an income boost.

I was disappointed to see just how small most of the grounds are in the 3rd Division. Queen`s Park aside, i think the highest other capacity is 4000.

So while they will be filled, they aren't going to make that much money which is a pity.

As we climb the leagues however, the capacities get bigger and those clubs will certainly prosper.

It will be good fun to re-visit all these grounds again. There are only 6 grounds in Scotland i haven`t been at so it should be interesting to visit them.

Onwards and upwards.

 

[McMav]

Ach thats not a problem for the other clubs as they don't need us or SKY.

Division 3 for me, imagine all those 3pm saturday kick offs, visiting all those wee away grounds and winning our 55th title against Queen`s park at Hampden.

I`m actually looking forward to it.

Yup with 3pm kickoffs I may actually get a season ticket for me the the kid. Its been a while but lack of Saturday afternoon kickoff's meant I couldnt get to many games.

 

[Metalface Mark]

I was disappointed to see just how small most of the grounds are in the 3rd Division. Queen`s Park aside, i think the highest other capacity is 4000.

So while they will be filled, they aren't going to make that much money which is a pity.

As we climb the leagues however, the capacities get bigger and those clubs will certainly prosper.

It will be good fun to re-visit all these grounds again. There are only 6 grounds in Scotland i haven`t been at so it should be interesting to visit them.

Onwards and upwards.

Clubs wont prosper with the size of the grounds on the back of two visits of a Rangers youth team, even going up the league, there is very few teams with a capacity bigger than about 8 or 9,000.

Against Hamilton last year, with a capacity of 6000 + the gazebo (whatever that was, 1200 or something) - against Rangers it was only 4800.

It would bring interest and good crowds without a doubt, but they wont be filled by a long shot every week.

Whether or not sky are scaremongering or actually would rip up a tv deal, with an estimated 500,000 scottish subscribers, you would think they would think carefully about that, obviously they want Rangers in the league and are using their weight now to try and ensure that, but we must ensure that it doesnt happen for the good of the game, Rangers fans dont want it, other supporters dont want it, only the guys who take the money in want it, and if they bend over and accept sky's meaty shaft then Scottish football if finished.

 

[McMav]

Clubs wont prosper with the size of the grounds on the back of two visits of a Rangers youth team, even going up the league, there is very few teams with a capacity bigger than about 8 or 9,000.

Against Hamilton last year, with a capacity of 6000 + the gazebo (whatever that was, 1200 or something) - against Rangers it was only 4800.

It would bring interest and good crowds without a doubt, but they wont be filled by a long shot every week.

Whether or not sky are scaremongering or actually would rip up a tv deal, with an estimated 500,000 scottish subscribers, you would think they would think carefully about that, obviously they want Rangers in the league and are using their weight now to try and ensure that, but we must ensure that it doesnt happen for the good of the game, Rangers fans dont want it, other supporters dont want it, only the guys who take the money in want it, and if they bend over and accept sky's meaty shaft then Scottish football if finished.

But Mark you said it wouldnt matter to Sky if Rangers were not in the SPL.

Looks like you may well have been wrong again? This will test the chairmen of the SPL clubs that at the moment RELY on sky money to help balance the books/pay the interest on their debt. If it happens I can see a FIRESALE at a lot of clubs this summer. Maybe it wont just be us fielding a youth team and of course with less TV airtime I would expect sponsorship deals to be renogotiated with clubs lessening the money from that route also. But its ok Mark as TV money and sponsor money isnt really needed eh??

 

[Metalface Mark]

Looks like the walking away has started with the manager being the first to go.

We dont do walking away..till we do.

 

[Metalface Mark]

But Mark you said it wouldnt matter to Sky if Rangers were not in the SPL.

Looks like you may well have been wrong again? This will test the chairmen of the SPL clubs that at the moment RELY on sky money to help balance the books/pay the interest on their debt. If it happens I can see a FIRESALE at a lot of clubs this summer. Maybe it wont just be us fielding a youth team and of course with less TV airtime I would expect sponsorship deals to be renogotiated with clubs lessening the money from that route also. But its ok Mark as TV money and sponsor money isnt really needed eh??

It wont be us either, ideal situation really, Rangers out the league, other teams get rid of big earners, the buddies fight it out with St Johnstone for 2nd place.

 

[doopydug]

Wee bit unfair on everyone to "walk away" from the problem that was created by Rangers though isn't it?

Ach thats not a problem for the other clubs as they don't need us or SKY.

Division 3 for me, imagine all those 3pm saturday kick offs, visiting all those wee away grounds and winning our 55th title against Queen`s park at Hampden.

I`m actually looking forward to it.