Absolute nonsense. Would mean the debt would have to be at a level somewhere between £500 - £850 million, depending on value of administrators fees. Some people should learn to think before typing.
The Rangers Saga and Fallout Thread
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Absolute nonsense. Would mean the debt would have to be at a level somewhere between £500 - £850 million, depending on value of administrators fees. Some people should learn to think before typing.
You are at it. Worst case scenario is the entire liabilities are £134 million. With approximately £5.5 million in the CVA (plus additional money owed (£3.5 million) and potential litigation from Collyer Bristow (£25million)) the creditors would receive just over 4p in the £, plus the addtitional incoming monies once they reach the club/ administrators - which would become an offer of 25p in the £ assuming litigation is successful.
Best case is debt is £55million, which would give a straight 10p in the £, plus the additional incoming monies, which could increase the offer to as much as 60p in the £.
Seriously do a little bit of basic maths - an offer of 1p in the £ would mean creditors are being offered £1.34million (maximum) out of the £8.5million CVA pot. Where is the other £7.2million going?
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Soldato
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There is no way the litigation will be successful.
Out the 8.5m CVA pot, 3.5m already to administrators, probably another million by the time its wound up, leaving 4m. Paul Whyte said the cost of doing the CVA also comes out the pot, who knows what that costs, another half million maybe?
When Rangers lose the big tax case it was always going to be at best case about 3 or 4 pence in the pound anyway, no surprise that there is likely a load of more deductions from the pot already.
Out the 8.5m CVA pot, 3.5m already to administrators, probably another million by the time its wound up, leaving 4m. Paul Whyte said the cost of doing the CVA also comes out the pot, who knows what that costs, another half million maybe?
When Rangers lose the big tax case it was always going to be at best case about 3 or 4 pence in the pound anyway, no surprise that there is likely a load of more deductions from the pot already.
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As I have asked you before, have you ever considered a career change?
So you are still shy of nearly £3million. Care to try again? I would possibly rule out accountancy from that career change!
I have pointed out to you the offer will be at its lowest approximately 4p in the £ (potentially rising to 25p on successful litigation), while at its highest it will be 10p in the £ (potentially rising to 60p in the £). Those are the numbers, give or take.
Now, you might say, the potential litigation income is pie in the sky, but I assume there are brighter minds than either you or I with actual legal knowledge who would advise otherwise.
PS: Administrators cost are at present estimated at £2.7 million, so that is another £800,000 you need to find to make your numbers make any sense - nearly £4million now!!!
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Oh and just to add as well, the administrators will likely have costs in the region of £3.5 million, but part of the pot is also an additional £3.5 million from incoming transfer funds (mostly the Jelavic money), therefore the pot would still be at roughly the same £8.5million level once costs had been deducted, so my 4p in the £ worst case calculation was undervalued.
It would actually be approx. 6.5p in the £.
It would actually be approx. 6.5p in the £.
Soldato
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It was the guy in the Herald that said 1p in the pound, not me.
Where are you getting the administrators estimated costs at 2.7m so far? Everything ive read has suggested it is currently about 3.5m.
Interesting also to note that Green's offer of 8.5m is just a loan that he will get back from Rangers before December 2020.
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5.12 The SPL season has finished and as a result, the Company‘s trading revenue has dropped sharply. The Company must still continue to trade, and in particular it must continue to pay its players, to remain as a going concern. As such, the Company will incur the CVA Trading Costs. It is unclear at the date of this Proposal the period over which the CVA Trading Costs will be incurred and therefore a definitive figure cannot be provided at present. It is estimated that, if the loan is drawn down on or around mid July 2012, the CVA Trading Costs may be in the region of £3,000,000
Administration fees are on top of the 3m CVA trading costs out the pot, so even by your 2.7 figure, thats 5.7m out of the 8.5m, at the low end, and 6.5m at the high end. The current pot of creditors is 56m near enough going by the statement, which would be just under 5% at the low end as a best case scenario. (not including any potential court cases in and out).
Administration fees are on top of the 3m CVA trading costs out the pot, so even by your 2.7 figure, thats 5.7m out of the 8.5m, at the low end, and 6.5m at the high end. The current pot of creditors is 56m near enough going by the statement, which would be just under 5% at the low end as a best case scenario. (not including any potential court cases in and out).
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Having read the CVA document it would appear the CVA pot less deductions is circa 5 millon pounds. If newco route will only leave 920k for unsecured creditors and if liquidated leaves 0 for unsecured creditors.
Estimated Funds Available for Unsecured Creditors CVA 4,967,284 NewCo 953,284 Liquidation Nil
This does not include any money won at court.
Estimated Funds Available for Unsecured Creditors CVA 4,967,284 NewCo 953,284 Liquidation Nil
This does not include any money won at court.
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Correct. Plus you have to factor in the £3.8million incoming money as well, which puts the CVA total at nearly £9million (not including any future litigation income).
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Statement as of May 28th 2012
Joint Administrators' Remuneration 11 (3,000,000)
Joint Nominees' and Supervisors' Fees 12 (500,000)
Wow, 3.5m eh, who would have thought it, straight from Duff and Phelps mouth
Joint Administrators' Remuneration 11 (3,000,000)
Joint Nominees' and Supervisors' Fees 12 (500,000)
Wow, 3.5m eh, who would have thought it, straight from Duff and Phelps mouth
It depends how the administrators bill. They are reportedly paid £30,000 per day. They have been at Ibrox for 75 working days, but I do not know if they bill 5 days per week or 7 days per week.
So the bill thus far will be somewhere between £2.25 million and £3.15 million.
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Thats including the players transfer fees.
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It states on the CVA how much their fees are.
Estimated Funds Available for Unsecured Creditors 4,967,284, of which it seems, 3m for the CVA is still to come out, so really, 2m.
So given the offer is a penny in the £ as you have been adamant, does that mean Rangers have outstanding debts of £496,728,400?
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Adios Rangers, its been nice knowing you.
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So given the offer is a penny in the £ as you have been adamant, does that mean Rangers have outstanding debts of £496,728,400?
No, CVA and administrators fees come out of the pot, so in reality, there is nothing left, nothing is rounded up to a penny obviously.
Even when the administrators give you all the evidence you still cant see the wood for the trees!
Will you apologise when it comes out that the 1p in the pound is accurate?
the 4.9 million is whats left AFTER the Admins and costs are deducted thats the bottom line
so just shy of 10p in pound return. Actually 8.9p in pound. Before any addons
There is £5million in the pot after fees, with a further £3.8million to be added to it, meaning a pot of £8.8million for a total debt of £54million.
which is 16p in the £. A hell of a lot more than nothing left rounded up to a penny...
Of course the debt could be higher than that at £134million, which would still AT WORST mean creditors receiving 6.5p in the £.
Those figures are minus any potential income from the litigation.
What part of these figures are you not understanding?
Tell you what, I will make a wee charity bet that the offer is significantly higher than that by a minimum of around a factor of 5 (worst case)... say £100 charity of your choice?
There is £5million in the pot after fees, with a further £3.8million to be added to it, meaning a pot of £8.8million for a total debt of £54million.
which is 16p in the £. A hell of a lot more than nothing left rounded up to a penny...
Of course the debt could be higher than that at £134million, which would still AT WORST mean creditors receiving 6.5p in the £.
Those figures are minus any potential income from the litigation.
What part of these figures are you not understanding?
Where are you seeing additional 3.8 million though Steve I see 2 million or so for transfers. Unless theres missing transfer fee's due in I only skimmed the document as I'm at work.
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