The RT Related Games, Benchmarks, Software, Etc Thread.

[BananaDunka]

Not really, RT is not punishing at all and even a 3080 can run Cyberpunk at high FPS with RT enabled. It is only punishing on AMD GPUs.

What is punishing is path tracing, and to understand why, you need to have a grounded understanding of what path tracing is. It will be punishing on all cards now and in the future for a long time yet. To that end, every game using path tracing will be punishing, not just Cyberpunk.

Cyberpunk has the most advanced yet well optimised ray tracing of any game as a reference point.

 

[humbug]

Not really, RT is not punishing at all and even a 3080 can run Cyberpunk at high FPS with RT enabled. It is only punishing on AMD GPUs.

What is punishing is path tracing, and to understand why, you need to have a grounded understanding of what path tracing is. It will be punishing on all cards now and in the future for a long time yet. To that end, every game using path tracing will be punishing, not just Cyberpunk.

Cyberpunk has the most advanced yet well optimised ray tracing of any game as a reference point.

I know what Path Tracing is.

Cyberpunk is an RTX showcase, Nvidia have a lot of involvement with it, that's not to say what you're saying is fundamentally wrong, it isn't, you're quite right to say Nvidia are better at RT than AMD, there are architectural choices that make Nvidia inherently better with very heavy RT.
However, better RT at less unplayable FPS is still unplayable FPS, it gets you a bigger bar on the bar charts but its still useless, the fact that tech jurnoes love benchmarking Cyberpunk as if its the only RT game that matters and at silly settings to show those bigger is better bar charts is what often gets people quite cynical about RT, those bigger is better bar charts are still junk, just less junky and on overpriced cards.

3DMark's RT benchmarks get me the same results as an RTX 4070, this with an RX 7800 XT, like many RT games, actually, you might say well 3DMark is not a proper representation of RT, only Cyberpunk is, like those tech jurnoes, well in that case you can keep your RT and Cyberpunk, i'm not interested.

 

[BananaDunka]

Ok but you are getting benchmark numbers from a top tier AMD card that matches a not even upper mid-tier Nvidia card, so this has nothing to do with RT and more to do with needing to point the finger at AMD to actually get off their backside and compete with performant hardware.

 

[humbug]

I mean, ok.... find me a tech jurnoes Cyberpunk benchmark where the 7800 XT gets a solid 60 FPS with an RT setting, and how that then compares with the 4070.

Doesn't exist, because its not the narrative.

 

[BananaDunka]

The RTX showcase you speak of is only that, RTX is the combination of all the tech rolled into one cohesive system that works together. there is zero reason why an AMD card could not utilise almost all of that as they have RT cores, they have frame generation, they have half decent upscaling now (FSR 3.1), the only thing missing is ray reconstruction which is an Nvidia only feature for RT which greatly enhances RT without any impact on framerates. Could AMD implement their own version that does the same thing? They could.... but Lucy ditched the idea in favour of going all out on AI acceleration now in order to compete with the billions of dollars that Nvidia are clawing away at an alarming rate. The 3D mark benchmark you mention doesn't use any special Nvidia tech, it is pure RT, yet your AMD card can only manage to match an NV card a league or two below it. So are you saying 3D mark is now an Nvidia showcase demo too?

Like I said, this isn't anything to do with RT, Nvidia just got there first and AMD dragged their feet letting things slip for two generations. Aside from ray reconstruction, Cyberpunk doesn't have any proprietary engine tech for ray tracing, it is simply for all intents and purposes RT as part of the DX12 API, and all GPU vendors have hardware to run it, only one runs it well because they've focused on RT hardware. and drivers the last few years to get there.

 

[humbug]

The RTX showcase you speak of is only that, RTX is the combination of all the tech rolled into one cohesive system that works together. there is zero reason why an AMD card could not utilise almost all of that as they have RT cores, they have frame generation, they have half decent upscaling now (FSR 3.1), the only thing missing is ray reconstruction which is an Nvidia only feature for RT which greatly enhances RT without any impact on framerates. Could AMD implement their own version that does the same thing? They could.... but Lucy ditched the idea in favour of going all out on AI acceleration now in order to compete with the billions of dollars that Nvidia are clawing away at an alarming rate.

Like I said, this isn't anything to do with RT, Nvidia just got there first and AMD dragged their feet letting things slip for two generations. Aside from ray reconstruction, Cyberpunk doesn't have any proprietary engine tech for ray tracing, it is simply for all intents and purposes RT as part of the DX12 API, and all GPU vendors have hardware to run it, only one runs it well because they've focused on RT hardware. and drivers the last few years to get there.

You've ignored everything that i said and circled back to the beginning again...

 

[BananaDunka]

Well no not really, you've gone onto a whinefest about how RT is an Nvidia demo because your card got a low 3dmark

 

[humbug]

Well no not really, you've gone onto a whinefest about how RT is an Nvidia demo because your card got a low 3dmark

Right, its not a 4090, do you look down on everyone who cannot produce the screenshots that you do?

 

[JediFragger]

Right, its not a 4090, do you look down on everyone who cannot produce the screenshots that you do?

I do

 

[humbug]

I do

 

[Calin Banc]

However, better RT at less unplayable FPS is still unplayable FPS, it gets you a bigger bar on the bar charts but its still useless.

Funny enough, is very playable in Surround at 5760x1080 with path tracing and 4080.

The RTX showcase you speak of is only that, RTX is the combination of all the tech rolled into one cohesive system that works together. there is zero reason why an AMD card could not utilise almost all of that as they have RT cores, they have frame generation, they have half decent upscaling now (FSR 3.1), the only thing missing is ray reconstruction which is an Nvidia only feature for RT which greatly enhances RT without any impact on framerates. Could AMD implement their own version that does the same thing? They could.... but Lucy ditched the idea in favour of going all out on AI acceleration now in order to compete with the billions of dollars that Nvidia are clawing away at an alarming rate. The 3D mark benchmark you mention doesn't use any special Nvidia tech, it is pure RT, yet your AMD card can only manage to match an NV card a league or two below it. So are you saying 3D mark is now an Nvidia showcase demo too?

Like I said, this isn't anything to do with RT, Nvidia just got there first and AMD dragged their feet letting things slip for two generations. Aside from ray reconstruction, Cyberpunk doesn't have any proprietary engine tech for ray tracing, it is simply for all intents and purposes RT as part of the DX12 API, and all GPU vendors have hardware to run it, only one runs it well because they've focused on RT hardware. and drivers the last few years to get there.

Is also SER which combined with RR could be a significantly bump in performance.

 

[humbug]

5760 X 1080 is 6,220,800 pixels.

4K is 8,847,360 pixels. 42% more.

 

[BananaDunka]

Remember though that SER is not exclusive to Nvidia, any GPU that's compliant with DXR 1.0 spec can run it, NV Dev blog states:

To access the feature set and optimizations provided by SER, you need the following:

• A GPU that supports DXR 1.0 or higher
• A driver that supports SER, R520, and newer
• HLSL extension headers, which can be found in the latest NVIDIA API
• Link against nvapi64.lib, included in the packages containing the HLSL headers
• (Optional) A recent version of DXC (dxcompiler.dll) that supports templates. If you’re compiling shaders from Visual Studio, make sure that your project is configured to use this version of the compiler executable.

Of course that basically outlines an RTX card since the other vendors need to actually support the framework, and why would AMD add support for an Nvidia API might be one question someone asks, even if it benefits AMD with faster ray tracing

 

[Calin Banc]

5760 X 1080 is 6,220,800 pixels.

4K is 8,847,360 pixels. 42% more.

The common resolution at 4k for displays/monitors is usually 3840x2160 => 8 294 400 / 6 2208 700 is about only 33% or, in other words, about 75% out of 4k since is literally 3x1080p instead of 4x1080p - what 4k would be.

And yes, is playable including path tracing.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Not really, RT is not punishing at all and even a 3080 can run Cyberpunk at high FPS with RT enabled. It is only punishing on AMD GPUs.

What is punishing is path tracing, and to understand why, you need to have a grounded understanding of what path tracing is. It will be punishing on all cards now and in the future for a long time yet. To that end, every game using path tracing will be punishing, not just Cyberpunk.

Cyberpunk has the most advanced yet well optimised ray tracing of any game as a reference point.

The fact you act like an RTX3080 is a nothing dGPU!

The most common dGPU used by gamers is the RTX3060. I have an RTX3060TI and the most powerful Nvidia dGPU under £500,officially is still the RTX4060TI. The top20 cards on Steam are:

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According to TPU,the RX7800XT is in-between an RTX3070TI and RTX3080 in RT(an average of games):

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The ASUS Radeon RX 7900 GRE TUF OC comes with a dual BIOS feature and a premium all-metal cooling solution that runs whisper-quiet. The TUF also offers adjustable RGB lighting, and cooling performance that's among the best of all the GRE cards that we've tested.

www.techpowerup.com

In the worse case scenario it is closer to an RTX3070 and in the best case scenario slightly better than an RTX3080.

That makes it beaten by 2,maybe 3 cards in the top20 on Steam for RT. So that means if you think an RX7800XT is too weak for RT,it means most of the Steam Top20 also is weak for RT too.

Considering Humbug really only buys sub £500 cards,and had an RTX2070 which was £400 beforehand I suspect their view of RT comes from only owning cheaper hardware.

Right, its not a 4090, do you look down on everyone who cannot produce the screenshots that you do?

They are on a tech forum,where apparently every gamer owns at least an RTX3080!

 

[BananaDunka]

You're actually taking things out of context there. I said a 3080 can run Cyberpunk quite fine with ray tracing which is objectively true. An AMD top tier card however can't, which is also objectively true even though it's generations newer than a 3080. It's path tracing that requires more meat from the NV side.

What part of my post states that a 3080 is "nothing"? Or have you misunderstood something.

Edit* And the steam survey showing a 3060 is the most common GPU doesn't matter, gamers who want to play RT games will have RT capable hardware, as evidenced by gaming forums where people discussing the games with high levels of RT have said hardware whilst the rest moan about it, as evidenced by this and other threads.

It's funny how it's always, always, a certain crowd that are quick to go on the offensive isn't it. You can never accept that you personally don't like RT or accept that you don't have HW capable of good RT so it must be rubbish and a NV GPU selling scheme or something, it's always someone else at fault. I've been using RT since the 2070 Super days and soldiering through the lower fps days where even DLSS Performance could not manage to sustain 60fps, but it was still super enjoyable and I could see the improved experience if I upgraded the GPU down the line, which I then did a further two times.

 

[tommybhoy]

You're actually taking things out of context there.

Touché

 

[humbug]

You're actually taking things out of context there. I said a 3080 can run Cyberpunk quite fine with ray tracing which is objectively true. An AMD top tier card however can't, which is also objectively true even though it's generations newer than a 3080. It's path tracing that requires more meat from the NV side.

What part of my post states that a 3080 is "nothing"? Or have you misunderstood something.

Edit* And the steam survey showing a 3060 is the most common GPU doesn't matter, gamers who want to play RT games will have RT capable hardware, as evidenced by gaming forums where people discussing the games with high levels of RT have said hardware whilst the rest moan about it, as evidenced by this and other threads.

It's funny how it's always, always, a certain crowd that are quick to go on the offensive isn't it.

Ok, according to TPU nothing short of an RTX 4080 can run Cyberpunk objectively "fine" at 1440P

So there are literally only 2 GPU's, the 4080 and the 4090 that can do Cyberpunk RT at 60 FPS or higher at 1440P and they cost £1000+

 

[humbug]

Oh yes and the 3080 isn't one of them...

 

[BananaDunka]

Ok, according to TPU nothing short of an RTX 4080 can run Cyberpunk objectively "fine" at 1440P

So there are literally only 2 GPU's, the 4080 and the 4090 that can do Cyberpunk RT at 60 FPS or higher at 1440P and they cost £1000+

I don;t know how accurate their figures are or the other settings they were using , but they are not accurate based on my experience. I was playing with a 3080 Ti at 3440x1440 and getting over 60fps in Cyberpunk using RT and DLSS Performance. I have plenty of screenshots in the Cyberpunk thread with RTSS overlays showing.

Likewise my 2070 Super was playing it at 2560x1080 on a 34" ultrawide and for the time that looked and ran decently too but with the obvious drawbacks of scaling a 1080p render up to such a big screen. Again screenshots in the Cyberpunk thread.