The Tesla Thread

Many don’t, JLR lost a chunk of money last year, Ford generally don’t in Europe, GM needed a massive bail out about 10 years ago etc.

I wouldn’t expect Tesla to make profits when they are experiencing significant growth and building out their product lines Tesla make a decent gross margin on their cars, it’s all just being ploughed back into the company to produce new vehicles, build out factories and other assets like super chargers. Similar things were said about amazon for years and years, look what happened to them.
 
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Jonnycoupe said:
other manufactures do actually make money selling cars though? Still not entirely sure where tesla are, even with the impressive Q3 delivery numbers.
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They do and they don't losing money on some and making up for it with small margins and large volumes in general. Never forget the subsidies and bail outs as mentioned. I believe Tesla have a relatively large margin on the Model 3 in particular but smaller volume of course.

They have made mistakes such as some bad design decisions in the chassis rear section with many parts that a traditional manufacturer would have made from a simpler stamped design. They are learning that part quickly and leading in the systems integration.

GM were famously losing something like $7-9K per Chevy Bolt as it's both innovative and stuck in the compartmentalised design philsophy of traditional manufacturers.

From the Wiki "A UBS tear down in 2017 suggested slightly smaller losses per vehicle, of $7418 on a base spec, or $5520 on a higher spec vehicle.[23] They estimate that by 2025 the Bolt will make a profit of about $6000 per vehicle."
 
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You also have to ask how many car manufacturers also build renewable energy products and provide grid scale battery storage solutions across the globe? Also how many of them will be designing and building their own battery cells, with unique chemistry and longevity.

All of these things add up, and build up a huge intellectual property portfolio that will need to be licensed, and they also have the EU carbon credits that they are selling for huge some of money to the incumbents who are lagging behind.
 
Worth pointing out that through this year Tesla have also been building a factory, not a big deal for large manufacturers, but a big deal for a small one. They also spent $200M aquiring a battery/super-capacitor manufacturer.
 
bimbleuk said:
GM were famously losing something like $7-9K per Chevy Bolt as it's both innovative and stuck in the compartmentalised design philsophy of traditional manufacturers.

From the Wiki "A UBS tear down in 2017 suggested slightly smaller losses per vehicle, of $7418 on a base spec, or $5520 on a higher spec vehicle.[23] They estimate that by 2025 the Bolt will make a profit of about $6000 per vehicle."
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IIRC GM purchased the entire drivetrain from LG Chem, battery, motor, electronics etc. and is what is attributed to the high price. Tesla on the other hand do as much in-house as possible.
 
Seems Tesla managed to deliver over 6,200 cars last quarter in the UK, with over 5,300 being the Model 3.
That's not a bad showing for a wee duckling in the big car pond.

Diesel sales dropped by 20%, but petrol only picked up 4% of that slack. Given that Tesla are selling £38k+ vehicles you have to wonder how much market share they could capture with a £20k City car.
 
I agree, probably a lot but it will be a pretty compromised car in terms of Tesla’s standards and likely pretty low margin like most city cars. I think they would be better off making the Y and a smaller CUV type car to pick up the X1/GLA crowd, that’s there the sales are going these days.
 
b0rn2sk8 said:
IIRC GM purchased the entire drivetrain from LG Chem, battery, motor, electronics etc. and is what is attributed to the high price. Tesla on the other hand do as much in-house as possible.
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GM didn't want the risk so bought like you say and Kia/Hyundai massively underestimated the demand and didn't negotiate enough battery supply and are a year or so behind orders!

I think the only reason we haven't been flooded with Chinese cars is because they are too busy trying to meet their own demand. Staggering figures below just from buses!

"According to a Bloomberg New Energy Finance study published last year, China introduces 9,500 new electric buses – equivalent to London's entire fleet – every five weeks. The study also estimates that of the 385,000 electric buses in operation worldwide, 99 per cent run in China."
 
Every single bus in Shenzhen (China) is electric and has been for awhile, I think there is now over 18,000 of them on the road. If you are wondering if the place sounds familiar it’s the city where basically all your consumer electronics are made.

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2018/dec/12/silence-shenzhen-world-first-electric-bus-fleet

For comparison, London has over 9300 buses on the roads, 200 are electric. While it’s the biggest in Europe in terms of the number it only makes up 2% of the fleet.

When it comes to buses they are the first things we should be electrifying, even from just an economic standpoint. Despite their higher purchase cost the fuel and maintenance savings are insane.
 
I would love to order a model three, but after having a Zoe, and a leaf I've finally gone back to petrol instead (5 years ev). We can afford it, I want to see what comes out from VW / Mini / Hyundai over the next year and don't want to be tied down just now. I think the pace of new products/cars is going to ramp up quickly now
 
kkelly said:
I would love to order a model three, but after having a Zoe, and a leaf I've finally gone back to petrol instead (5 years ev). We can afford it, I want to see what comes out from VW / Mini / Hyundai over the next year and don't want to be tied down just now. I think the pace of new products/cars is going to ramp up quickly now
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You are correct the pace is really starting to ramp up, but sadly it is going to take at least 3 years for the incumbent ICE manufacturers to catch up with Tesla with regards to the Model 3 features/specifications/range/efficiency etc. and by then Tesla have had three more years to further develop their motors/cells/software/super charging network.

We've just taken a steal of a deal on the new 38.3kWh Hyundai Ionic which will see us through until 2022, hopefully the waters will be less muddy by the time it is due to be replaced, but I can honestly see a second hand Model 3 on the cards. :)
 
Journey said:
We've just taken a steal of a deal on the new 38.3kWh Hyundai Ionic which will see us through until 2022, hopefully the waters will be less muddy by the time it is due to be replaced, but I can honestly see a second hand Model 3 on the cards. :)
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We both really fancied a Kona, but the waiting list didn't match our hand in date of our leaf so we bought a petrol mini for now, still have an Outlander as the family wagon
 
Simon said:
I wonder how long it takes Tesla to catch up with how to paint a car though.
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I couldn't give two hoots, it could come with just an undercoat for all I care. Paint is hardly a high priority, compared to efficiency, performance, and all the other things listed above.

Unless of course you were just trying to be funny. ;)
 
You already see disappointment in this thread about paint.

Is the Porsche Taycan or ipace really 3yrs behind a model 3?
 
Telsa have been in touch about my charging woes....

However, they want response via text..... They asked for times/date for charging, which units I've tried and used, whether AC/DC etc, along with other details of how long it charges for, what happens etc.

Hard work trying to put that all into a text message and send it over. Email would be easier, speaking to someone would be a novel idea as well!!
 
Simon said:
Is the Porsche Taycan or ipace really 3yrs behind a model 3?
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Look at the size of the battery pack, and look at the effective range, both vehicles are way behind on efficiency compared with a Model 3, not to mention they are priced at £70-115k+. Ask yourself how long will it take them to refine their motors and battery packs to catch up? All the usual stuff inside a car is great, the fit, finish and comfort levels, but that is not what is different in an EV, the motors, battery pack, software etc. are all what makes it a great BEV rather than just another normal car with electric drive train. Don't get me wrong I think the Porsche is great, and every manufacturer that comes to market makes the others work harder which benefits the consumer.
 
Simon said:
You already see disappointment in this thread about paint.

Is the Porsche Taycan or ipace really 3yrs behind a model 3?
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The pension fund is years larger that’s for sure, hence they can’t have Twitter wideboys in charge.

EPA factor of 0.77 to their mileage declaration helps aswell when other OEM have default 0.7

Tesla do have some pretty slick integration ideas that’s for sure. But can’t really compare a model3 to the IPACE. Space and posture if far better on the Jag which really hurts the frontal area.
 
No but compared to the much larger model X it still lags behind on efficiency considerably. Charge rate is a huge factor, the iPace changes far slower and chugs through far more electrons electrons. The iPace can only dream about effective miles per hour on a fast charger that the Model X can get. It’s about half the rate and the charging network is poor in comparison.

Software wise they are well behind. Just look at the features Tesla are bringing. Built in dash cams, Netflix streaming, etc all for free and to every car in the fleet including those from 2013. The software experience is far closer to that of a smartphone than a car. In most cars your lucky to get big fixes or map updates let alone new features or for free.

As others have said, fit and finish absolutely behind the curve but we already knew that. Model S does need an interior refresh, Model 3 is a Great Leap Forward but it obviously isn’t a Porsche. They are also expensive, more so than an equivalent ICE and lack a few premium options you will find on other higher end cars. They are also pretty limited when it comes to colour and wheel options, every car is pretty much the same.
 
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