The Tesla Thread

[Del Lardo]

50 cars in stock for the whole of the UK is hardly a problem is it? They were selling nearly 70 model 3’s a day in August. It’s only a problem if they are all still sat there in a month or two. You’ll never know that though by just looking at the website because stock will be replenished fairly regularly.

How many 7 Series BMWs are kicking around at all the dealers? I’d be putting money on it’s more than 50.

They're not actually in stock, people who have tried to buy them have been told they are arriving in the UK in November.

In an even more bizarre twist, they are the same spec that some reservation holders are waiting for. Some of those reservation holders have already been waiting for months, guess the random number generator doesn't like them!

 

[Journey]

Makes sense, although perhaps a little extreme to remove all of the used ones for sale. A £40k used customer is not the same customer as a £75k+ new customer.

Anyways, let's get back to the Model 3.

Would a 40k used customer be buying a 2014 Model S, or a much superior new Model 3 through? Also I hadly call have~ £4m of Model S stock in one of the biggest car markets in europe an issue, if they had 12 different models, and 150 variations of each then maybe, but they have 3 cars, with a handful of variations. Perhaps they are also re-jigging the stock or maybe they've just sent it all to auction.

 

[Joe T]

Would a 40k used customer be buying a 2014 Model S, or a much superior new Model 3 through?

I think there's enough differences that for some customers a 2014-2016ish Model S is the more suitable car, with probably less depreciation than a new Model 3. Heck, they've even had a P100D with Ludicrous mode enabled for £50k on their site recently - that's not bad value for the performance. Regardless, one has to hope that there's customers for used Teslas otherwise RVs are going to tumble!

Also I hadly call have~ £4m of Model S stock in one of the biggest car markets in europe an issue, if they had 12 different models, and 150 variations of each then maybe, but they have 3 cars, with a handful of variations. Perhaps they are also re-jigging the stock or maybe they've just sent it all to auction.

If the latter, then their inventory management is terrible, but I dont think that's the case.

 

[Journey]

I think there's enough differences that for some customers a 2014-2016ish Model S is the more suitable car, with probably less depreciation than a new Model 3. Heck, they've even had a P100D with Ludicrous mode enabled for £50k on their site recently - that's not bad value for the performance. Regardless, one has to hope that there's customers for used Teslas otherwise RVs are going to tumble!

I suppose you need to look at the second hand market more like other products that went through fast development cycles, maybe not quite as fast as the smartphone, but in a similar vein. Where a product from 2014-16 is simply not as appealing due to superior technology in the new version, and having a large negative effect on the second hand price, regardless of the product.
Try to view it from a different stance than the old car sales model you are familiar with when a new technology is being pushed, as reasonably big advances are being made in 3-5 years, well within the lifetime of the product. Better motors, better batteries, better computing hardware, better software, better manufacturing, all of these will negatively impact even people buying the Model 3, but a high end vehicle like the Model S will depreciate a lot anyhow, much like a Mercedes-Benz S Class will when the facelift/refresh model comes out. This is why leasing works out well, as you limit your exposure to these advances in this fast changing market

 

[Joe T]

I suppose you need to look at the second hand market more like other products that went through fast development cycles, maybe not quite as fast as the smartphone, but in a similar vein. Where a product from 2014-16 is simply not as appealing due to superior technology in the new version, and having a large negative effect on the second hand price, regardless of the product.
Try to view it from a different stance than the old car sales model you are familiar with when a new technology is being pushed, as reasonably big advances are being made in 3-5 years, well within the lifetime of the product. Better motors, better batteries, better computing hardware, better software, better manufacturing, all of these will negatively impact even people buying the Model 3, but a high end vehicle like the Model S will depreciate a lot anyhow, much like a Mercedes-Benz S Class will when the facelift/refresh model comes out. This is why leasing works out well, as you limit your exposure to these advances in this fast changing market

The point remains - we'd better hope that there's buyers for used Teslas. Otherwise the leasing rates are going to go through the roof! Obviously, the lease cost is driven primarily by the expected depreciation. In a fast-changing market, due to the factors you state, the depreciation will be more, and so therefore will the lease costs.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

Not sure leasing limits your exposure because the risk is built into the lease price.

If anything people got it very wrong with the Leaf, values have been holding extremely well due to lack of supply and a changing consumer mindset. That will also benefit the 3 as they age well into 2025 (assuming other males start producing in volume in 21/22).

The main issue the model S has is its historic price. The tech hasn’t really got that much better but instead a lot cheaper.

 

[Marc2180]

Had a weird stand off this morning at a public charging point.

Dropped daughter off at swimming at 7am and went to the local free 50kw Dc charger. Plugged in, started charging (bear in mind it's 7am on a Saturday morning).

After about 10 minutes - BMW i3 turned up. Parked right in front of my car at 90 degrees. Effectively blocking me in - Old guy gets out - walks over to charger and then decides to go walk round my car. I'm sitting watching youtube.

He then proceeds to walk up to the charging cable which is plugged into my car, and have a close look at it to check I'm charging. He then tours the car for another lap. - I popped the window to ask if I can help him?

His response - " your not allowed to charge here with that car" - eh?? what??

I politely informed him that it's a public charger and I would be finished in about 10 minutes if he wanted to wait. There is no rules on what type of car can use it I said.

He then wanders back to his car whilst muttering out loud - "bloody ridiculous at this time in the morning with these big cars " and literally wheel spins out the car park.

All very odd - settled back into watching baseball highlights on youtube!

Sounds rather hypocritical, moaning at you for doing the exact thing he was about to do. I'd have went off on one on him.

 

[booyaka]

software updates coming thick and fast - Had V10 last week, then had two smaller updates last night and another one today....installing now.

Only issue after last nights update was my rear camera seems to have stopped working.....I'll see if it's the same again after this install and I'll do a soft reset to see if it returns.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

Not sure leasing limits your exposure because the risk is built into the lease price.

If anything people got it very wrong with the Leaf, values have been holding extremely well due to lack of supply and a changing consumer mindset. That will also benefit the 3 as they age well into 2025 (assuming other males start producing in volume in 21/22).

The main issue the model S has is its historic price. The tech hasn’t really got that much better but instead a lot cheaper.

This was my view as well, the S price was (by todays standards) too high as it was new tech, the tech hasn't really changed that much.
Oddly the main competitor for the used S is probably the 3 right now.
Had the 3 not become available at the price point it is, demand for used S's would probably be higher.

 

[Journey]

This was my view as well, the S price was (by todays standards) too high as it was new tech, the tech hasn't really changed that much.
Oddly the main competitor for the used S is probably the 3 right now.
Had the 3 not become available at the price point it is, demand for used S's would probably be higher.

If you look at the Model S 75, which has the same energy storage capacity as the Model 3 LR there is ~100 mile difference in the range, so what we both said is correct - the Model 3 will easily pull potential buyers away from used Model S at that price range and slightly above, and it does have the 'newer' tech in it.

 

[oneilldo]

yes to my Ltd company - they own the car (as per V5) - Used LV for insurance. Bought outright with EST loan in Scotland.

Hi @booyaka,
As the vehicle is a company vehicle did you get insurance in the companies name or in your name?

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

What realistically is a sensible expectation on taking delivery of a 3 from ordering

I am seriously starting to consider one. Assuming it fits in my car allowance (I am 99% sure it will) then I can see myself going for one now, with the BIK changes.
Currently I am opted out, but the balance of the 3 looks good.

I cant charge at home realistically so would need to charge away from home, but we already have some hybrids at work so charging is available at work. My commute is 40 miles per day so charging on something like Monday and Thurs would be ideal, assuming I wasn't going to do mega miles for some other reason. I rarely do any significant mileage as we tend to use the others halves company car when doing those trips. (Diesel X1 so considerably better MPG than TT)

As I own my TT particular timing isnt a big deal, but i would probably prefer a delivery May-June 2020, than suddenly getting a call to say its ready in Dec. With the BIK being high in 2019/20.

 

[booyaka]

Hi @booyaka,
As the vehicle is a company vehicle did you get insurance in the companies name or in your name?

Taken from my policy documents:

Policy holder is me & my wife as named driver.

• A company is the legal owner of the car
• A company is the registered keeper of the car

I called to double check this was all correct when I got the V5 and LV confirm it was.

 

[booyaka]

Another 48 hours passes and no updates or contact re charging woes'

Tesla servicing are saying they can't call me (they have no phones!!!!), everything is via text which is ridiculous. They won't email me either.

The only public 50kw DC charger within 15 miles of me is broken so I'm currently having to use Instavolt at 35p per kw up the road as the only proper/consistent charger that I can use!!!

This is BONKERS!!! Totally and utterly ridiculous.......

AC charging on public chargers is so slow it's pathetic - AC 22kw public charger showing last night 4.5 hours to add 25% battery!!!

Got 150 mile round trip to do tomorrow and I'll need to spend another £10 or something on Instavolt.

Eventually that seemed to do the trick - Service centre appointment booked for 23rd October and a courtesy car provided. FINGERS CROSSED it gets sorted as it's driving me nuts....

 

[bimbleuk]

What realistically is a sensible expectation on taking delivery of a 3 from ordering

I'm not sure there is any sensible time frame as it appears a boat load arrives and then they assign the cars to matching orders.

In my case I placed an order on Thursday and the next Thursday I was driving home in a new Tesla! Caused me some stress getting things organised as I was fully expecting a few weeks at the at the earliest but I'd rather have it than not of course. You can simply refuse your car allocation when contacted and it will be assigned to someone else and you get put back in the queue.

I also do ~40 miles a day and had intended to charge maybe once or twice a week. However Tesla do advise to plug the car in whenever possible while keeping between 20-80% in normal use. Charging above 90% and driving to below 20% are not bad per se just not advised to be parked up and left that way for extended periods. That's how to keep the battery in it's optimal state over it's life time.

So I tend to plug my car in and set the charge schedule to start at 05:00 and set a limit to between 60-80% percent depending on how far I'm going to drive. Leaving the car plugged in allows the BMS to again maintain the battery in an optimal state. Though I believe proper cell balancing/calibration only happens when charged to 100% and left to stand for a couple of hours.

I'm sure there's plenty of people that don't stick religiously to that sort of regime and have not suffered any great range loses though. I think it's constant rapid charging that has the biggest affect on battery degradation in general and I mean daily rapid charging.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

I would be wary unless you can guarantee being able to charge at work on a Monday, Friday and sometime mid week. Not having charging at or near your home will be a PITA at times. If you used the car at the weekend you would need to ensure you had enough charge left for Monday morning.

Tesla’s also use a few miles when parked due to being always connected, even more if you go into the app and wake the car up or use sentry mode. You’ll need to factor that in.

 

[oneilldo]

Taken from my policy documents:

Policy holder is me & my wife as named driver.

• A company is the legal owner of the car
• A company is the registered keeper of the car

I called to double check this was all correct when I got the V5 and LV confirm it was.

many thanks. I’ve been trying to get my head round it. Accountants think the company needs to be named on the policy but didn’t know how this worked in practice as I don’t require fleet insurance and the only drivers (wife and I) should I assume be named on the policy

 

[Del Lardo]

What realistically is a sensible expectation on taking delivery of a 3 from ordering

I am seriously starting to consider one. Assuming it fits in my car allowance (I am 99% sure it will) then I can see myself going for one now, with the BIK changes.
Currently I am opted out, but the balance of the 3 looks good.

I cant charge at home realistically so would need to charge away from home, but we already have some hybrids at work so charging is available at work. My commute is 40 miles per day so charging on something like Monday and Thurs would be ideal, assuming I wasn't going to do mega miles for some other reason. I rarely do any significant mileage as we tend to use the others halves company car when doing those trips. (Diesel X1 so considerably better MPG than TT)

As I own my TT particular timing isnt a big deal, but i would probably prefer a delivery May-June 2020, than suddenly getting a call to say its ready in Dec. With the BIK being high in 2019/20.

What limits you charging at home?

You'll quickly find that you much prefer driving a M3 longer distances compared to an X1, if nothing else it's likely to be 10p/mile cheaper in fuel

Delivery is anything from a week to 4+ months. Likely to see a sharp uptake in orders around April as the BIK improvements kick in so I'd guess at late Feb order, you do not have to take the first car they offer either, you can say you cannot collect and they'll allocate it to someone else waiting and put you back in the queue.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

I'm not sure there is any sensible time frame as it appears a boat load arrives and then they assign the cars to matching orders.

In my case I placed an order on Thursday and the next Thursday I was driving home in a new Tesla! Caused me some stress getting things organised as I was fully expecting a few weeks at the at the earliest but I'd rather have it than not of course. You can simply refuse your car allocation when contacted and it will be assigned to someone else and you get put back in the queue.

I also do ~40 miles a day and had intended to charge maybe once or twice a week. However Tesla do advise to plug the car in whenever possible while keeping between 20-80% in normal use. Charging above 100% and driving to below 20% are not bad per se just not advised to be parked up and left that way for extended periods. That's how to keep the battery in it's optimal state over it's life time.

So I tend to plug my car in and set the charge schedule to start at 05:00 and set a limit to between 60-80% percent depending on how far I'm going to drive. Leaving the car plugged in allows the BMS to again maintain the battery in an optimal state. Though I believe proper cell balancing/calibration only happens when charged to 100% and left to stand for a couple of hours.

I'm sure there's plenty of people that don't stick religiously to that sort of regime and have not suffered any great range loses though. I think it's constant rapid charging is what has the biggest affect on battery degradation in general and I mean daily rapid charging.

Thanks. Think I may hold off for now then if it could happen that quickly.

Also looked at the costs and for me right now, its not working out particularly well.
I get a rather generous car allowance, and only pay the tax and NI on fuel, whilst also being able to claim back business miles at 40p.

Car allowance, post tax £5700

Costs, Insurance £200 (old git low risk area)
Road Tax £150
Tyres £300
Servicing £250
Petrol £650 (tax and NI on approx 250 galls per year)
Depreciation £3500 (approx expected TT depreciation based on GFV)
Total £5050.
Split isnt perfect but roughly adds up to my annual expenditure

So based on this it would cost me approx £50 a month to switch from the TT to a 3

Dont think its worth it. Next year would be fine, but year after BIK starts to kick back in so the gap starts to widen. Couple of years ago they significantly increased our car allowance so it genuinely reflected the real costs (was done externally and indepedently from company).

Maybe when it comes to changing car (2-3 years is the plan)

I wouldn't care that much about the battery position, as it wouldn't be my car and leased real longevity not my problem

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

I would be wary unless you can guarantee being able to charge at work on a Monday, Friday and sometime mid week. Not having charging at or near your home will be a PITA at times. If you used the car at the weekend you would need to ensure you had enough charge left for Monday morning.

Tesla’s also use a few miles when parked due to being always connected, even more if you go into the app and wake the car up or use sentry mode. You’ll need to factor that in.

I can guarantee charging at work any day I am there, we have EV points and add more as people start to switch to Evs or plug in hybrids.
I just figured I wouldnt bother to do it daily, but in theory every day