The Windows 8 Thread

[marc2003]

Ahh yeah, I had read that before. Do you run that as your main rig OS then?

nope, dual booting with windows 7. being the nerd i am, i have it set up as a domain controller and i mess around installing other servers/clients in virtual machines to connect to it. it's just a trial version but you get 180 days before you have to activate it.

 

[Django x2]

could always just slmgr -rearm after 180 days

 

[marc2003]

not sure that works on windows server. besides, my dual boot installs never last that long. as i don't have any free partitions, windows 8 beta will going in that space come the end of feb. (back on topic slightly. woo. )

 

[Django x2]

Yeah it does, I had to do it to a load of VM machines the other day

 

[TheVoice]

Why does the average home user need a desktop? They simply don't and metro is a much better "desktop" for the home user.

If you like having more than one thing open and accessible at any one time then a desktop is far more useful. I have a 20" screen, I don't need a massive touch-style interface taking up the entire thing.

As for switching from one to the other, that doesn't happen if you don't want to. Once your in desktop I can stay in desktop for weeks at a time with out switching between the two.

I was obviously missing something, but I couldn't find how to bring up the traditional Start menu which meant having to go back and forth between desktop and Metro just to open apps. The fact that it wasn't obvious or intuitive shows that something is clearly wrong. Same applies to Metro; I couldn't work out how to exit apps or do anything more advanced than the basics in them because obvious things (like pressing Escape to exit) don't do anything.

Metro has little purpose on a standard desktop PC. You don't need your entire screen filled with chunky icons or 150 programs or whatever; a larger display is supposed to enable you to better mult-task and have various different things on-screen at one time. Metro will work well for small displays and media PCs, but not for a normal desktop.

 

[ng93]

snip

I was obviously missing something, but I couldn't find how to bring up the traditional Start menu which meant having to go back and forth between desktop and Metro just to open apps. The fact that it wasn't obvious or intuitive shows that something is clearly wrong

snip

No, it shows that it's a pre-beta build which is designed to show off metro.

 

[Glaucus]

If you like having more than one thing open and accessible at any one time then a desktop is far more useful.

you can have as many apps as you want open.

I was obviously missing something, but I couldn't find how to bring up the traditional Start menu which meant having to go back and forth between desktop and Metro just to open apps. .

What do you need start menu for, use task bar or desktop. Like over 80% of windows users.

You don't exit apps, why would you. Windows8 has a very good sleep for apps not in use which means zero CPU time. Do you go though closing all your apps on your phone?

As for metro being useless, you are so wrong.
Wake up PCs and OS design are changing and changing fast. What and the way people use a computer is changing forever and for the better.

If you don't like to fiddle or learn, don't download a pre beta version. There's a massive amount of control changes for beta release.

No different when people where up in arms with vista and caching program's. Yeah because you paid for 4gb of ram to sit there doing nothing. People love to hold onto outdated mechanisms, when they clearly don't have a clue how the new system is implemented.

As I've said so many times. What the devloper preview keynotes. Maybe then you'll get an idea.

 

[MR.B]

Just added this to original post... shame it's only for the Server version, for now.

> New file system - But only for Windows Server 8

ReFS (Resilient File System) is the new file system used in Windows Server 8, it will replace NTFS but is also build on the NTFS foundation to maintain compatibility. As with all new file systems from Microsoft it will first appear on the server version, and then likely make it's way in to the next home versions of Windows (Windows 9). Loads more details and a FAQ on ReFS can be found here.

Key new features (some of these features are provided in conjunction with Storage Spaces, mentioned previously, which is on all Windows 8 versions):

• Metadata integrity with checksums - Verify and auto-correct data. Data can get corrupted due to a number of reasons and therefore must be verified and, when possible, corrected automatically.
• Integrity streams providing optional user data integrity
• Allocate on write transactional model for robust disk updates (also known as copy on write)
• Large volume, file and directory sizes - Optimize for extreme scale. Use scalable structures for everything. Don’t assume that disk-checking algorithms, in particular, can scale to the size of the entire file system.
• Storage pooling and virtualization makes file system creation and management easy
• Data striping for performance (bandwidth can be managed) and redundancy for fault tolerance
• Disk scrubbing for protection against latent disk errors
• Resiliency to corruptions with "salvage" for maximum volume availability in all cases
• Shared storage pools across machines for additional failure tolerance and load balancing
• Never take the file system offline. Assume that in the event of corruptions, it is advantageous to isolate the fault while allowing access to the rest of the volume. This is done while salvaging the maximum amount of data possible, all done live.

 

[MR.B]

I was obviously missing something, but I couldn't find how to bring up the traditional Start menu which meant having to go back and forth between desktop and Metro just to open apps. The fact that it wasn't obvious or intuitive shows that something is clearly wrong.

Thats because there is no traditional Start menu. It's gone for good. You use Metro. See this post for an explantion of how it works and why it's better.
But basically the Apps screen replaces the Start menu's "All Programs" list and search box. You can get to this screen by hovering in the bottom left corner of the Start Button –> Search. Or by pressing Windows Key + S (i think). It's quicker and easier.

You don't exit apps, why would you. Windows8 has a very good sleep for apps not in use which means zero CPU time. Do you go though closing all your apps on your phone?

You can actually close Metro apps now in the latest Win 8 builds. You simply drag your finger from the top to the bottom of the screen. You can see here at around 1:05.
At 0.35 theres a multi-tasking drop down menu shown at the top as well which makes it quicker to switch through open apps, which i think is also new.

 

[ng93]

How do people think Intel will price their socs? As the Samsung BUILD tablet (can't remember the proper name ) is very expensive. Can't imagine many people buying Intel over ARM unless they slash the prices a lot.

 

[Glaucus]

How do people think Intel will price their socs? As the Samsung BUILD tablet (can't remember the proper name ) is very expensive. Can't imagine many people buying Intel over ARM unless they slash the prices a lot.

Well first of you need to realise what that Samsung build is and that's an intel i5 it isn't soc, that's why it's so expensive.

So that won't be normal tablet price as it isn't running SoC

 

[Photek]

How do people think Intel will price their socs? As the Samsung BUILD tablet (can't remember the proper name ) is very expensive. Can't imagine many people buying Intel over ARM unless they slash the prices a lot.

Intel have a new Atom SoC that can finally compete with ARM on power usage (previous Atoms where no where near!!). This SoC is x86 and will be used in Android smartphones this year, so it's cheap, and i see no reason for it to also be used in Win 8 tablets. Or atleast a variation of it.

 

[ng93]

Cheers Glaucus didn't realise the price difference was so large between cpu and soc .

Was hoping they'd drop the price of the culvs so I could get a beasty powerful tablet for cheap (really like the samsung but no way I could ever justify the price ).

That atom does look damn nice, but still not the performance I was hoping for. Still though, 22nm should bring good things .

 

[Amp34]

How do people think Intel will price their socs? As the Samsung BUILD tablet (can't remember the proper name ) is very expensive. Can't imagine many people buying Intel over ARM unless they slash the prices a lot.

Depends what you mean. If you want something like that Samsung tablet then it will be in the £600+ (more likely £800+) range like most good laptops with an i5, several GB or RAM and an SSD. That's for the producers. If you just want something to consume on, comparable to an iOS or Android tablet, for example, then I assume the Intel Atom versions will be in that sort of price range, they will need to compete with the ARM versions so can't be any more.

I think (and hope) Windows 8 ends up on two tablets:

Convertibles - Ones with dockable keyboards, proper processors, 4-8+GB of RAM and 128+GB SSDs that range from ~£800-£1000+. Proper replacements for dedicated ultraportable laptops, and

Tablets - Running ARM or Atom with a couple of GB's RAM and up to 64GB storage etc. in the £300-500ish price range.

Convertibles for producing and business, Tablets for siting on the dining room table/on the tube for reading the news and browsing the internet.

 

[NathanE]

£800 for an Samsung/ARM tablet? Don't be silly. ARM tablets will top out at around £500, same as high-end iPad's.

I think the entry level price will be around £200 to £250.

 

[MR.B]

Moarrrrrr stuff...


> Sign in with a picture password

For anything with a touch screen you can now sign in with a picture password instead of a text password. You can select any picture you wish and use it to sign in by drawing circles, lines or dot gestures on the picture in different combinations and in different areas.

A picture password with just 5 gestures has 70,441,983,603,740 combinations. Compared to an eight character text password which only has 182,790,400 (thats also including numbers and other characters). When using just 5 taps alone and not even drawing any circles or lines you still have 15,344,276,658 combinations.

Another security benefit is that key loggers obviously don't work with a picture password.

For more details, or if you're wondering how just 5 taps on a screen has more combinations than a 8 character password see this for an explanation. And theres a follow up post that addresses any security concerns here.

 

[Glaucus]

Seems like there's a hole host of updates for the beta then. Can't wait. Such a good and stable OS already. Especially with the app store. Be nice to see what is already on there and actually use metro properly.

Just a shame it's going to take ages for games and big applications to get a metro overhaul.

 

[unwashed potato!]

what would be nice is the ability to password protect folders. i don't like the idea that i could have friends going through my personal pictures of the other half.

 

[Glaucus]

Would be a great feature.

But isn't that the point of a guest account.

 

[MR.B]

And more stuff...

> Easier and faster installation

• Easier upgrade
  
  The upgrade process for Win 8 has been greatly streamlined, integrated and simplified. Things like Upgrade Advisor and Easy Transfer are now integrated in to one end-to-end experience, where as on Vista / 7 these were separate. It can take as few as 11 clicks to install Windows 8, but all the advanced options are still there if needed (no capabilities have been removed).
  For people who download Win 8 a new integrated download manager provides time estimates, data validation, the ability to pause, resume, and re-download only parts of the file if something goes wrong.
  When upgrading from Win 7 - all programs, Windows settings, user accounts and files can be transferred. With Vista everything but programs can be transferred.
  
  Heres all the screens you'll see when doing a typical upgrade to Win 8...
  
  
  
  
  
  
• Faster installation
  
  Previously when upgrading a PC that had loads of files that had to be kept it could take hours to install Windows. But now the time isn't much different from a clean install (see chart below). One reason for the greatly improved times is because Windows 7 and older OS's used to copy each individual file to another location, where as Windows 8 uses hard links instead. This means a link is created to the actual data on disk, without having to physically move the file. Full details here.