Theories of the universe

Ok just to make clear - physics cannot answer any of these questions. All physics can do is provide a model which gives good results when compared to experiment. It cannot say whether any of the physical assumptions in the model relate to "real" life. Some models (like general relativity) make heavy use of physical imagery (bending of space-time continuum) however this is not saying that these phenomena are real. They are just useful in visualizing the problem at hand. Saying whether they are real or not is a question of philosophy. Other successful theories (such as Newton's Laws) rely on no imagery.

btw I study physics but am a big fan of philosophy too.

Edit - Why must there be a start and end to time? Also, as far as I'm aware string theory has not been proven wrong because it can't be as it makes no experimentally verifiable predictions as of yet. Seeing superpartners at the lhc might provide circumstantial evidence for it though.
 
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Grimbough said:
You can definitely get different sized infinities.

First take all the natural numbers from 1 to Infinity. So you've got an infinite set of values.
Now create another set of numbers by multiplying everything in the first set by -1 and sticking the two sets together so it goes from -Infinity to Infinity, counting in 1's. Again we've got an infinite set of values, but there's twice as many as in the first set, so it must be a "bigger" infinity.
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that's the thing though, there isn't twice as many as the first set, for that to be the first set couldn't have been infinity.
 
I prefer Bill Hicks View.

"That all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration. That we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively. There is no such thing as death, life is only a dream and we're the imagination of ourselves."
"Now here's Tom with the weather" :D
 
How the universe came to be facinates me. I have almost no understanding of physics however.

What are the most well known 'theories' for its existance?
 
Nitefly said:
How the universe came to be facinates me. I have almost no understanding of physics however.

What are the most well known 'theories' for its existance?
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erm well that there is a creator (god) is probably the most popular lol.

then there's the big bang theory

dark matter theory

string theory

black hole/white hole theory

and many others that I dont know of
 
stevenazari1 said:
erm well that there is a creator (god) is probably the most popular lol.

then there's the big bang theory

dark matter theory

string theory

black hole/white hole theory

and many others that I dont know of
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depends, are we talking about how the universe first came into being? or how it developed once it already exsisted?
 
yantorsen said:
that's the thing though, there isn't twice as many as the first set, for that to be the first set couldn't have been infinity.
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Be wary of making of making definite statements about infinity.

Consider this thought experiment.

You have a ribbon of infinite length. Now join the ends together to make a Möbius strip. Now staring at a point on the surface of the Möbius strip how far do you travel around the surface of the Möbius strip to get back to the point where you started?

If the answer is an infinite distance is it the same infinite distance as the original length of the ribbon?
 
yantorsen said:
it's not just mavity though, it's to do with the acceleration of mavity.
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that wasnt my point - my point was that it involved mavity.

it doesnt matter at which point of the universe we are talking about - just the concept in general. up to you which part you want to discuss. you never hear people predict the end of it though do you :confused:

tbh I dont think we are at the age where we have the technology to aid us in understanding space. we need to be much further to be able to have the ability to fully understand it.
 
In my own 'unique' and 'special' way I decided to approach the 'how did the universe begin' from the end. (Bear with me on this one)

I am of the belief this is how the universe will ultimately end.
http://www.exitmundi.nl/bigexpansion.htm

Eventually, I read somewhere that even atoms themselves will become unstable and eventually collapse, removing any and all matter from the universe (i'm sure I could find a link or 2 on this somewhere)

However, the universe wasn't just a 'blip' on the eternal landscape (ie, before there was nothing, then there was the universe, which the ceased to exist) because we're about to go through it all again
http://www.exitmundi.nl/eternity.htm

Now, and this is where I start to come to the beginning... What if we are the nth incarnation of that 'eternity result' ?

Obviously, I am just a laymen however, and so if any physicist (or someone who knows more about this than me) can point out any glaring faults with it - i'd be interested to learn :)
 
You have spent the last 12 hours or so arguing about mass/density/volume?

What about the more interesting questions about the origins of the universe?

And I lol'd hard when I saw Tefal's pic :D
 
DavidMarq said:
Be wary of making of making definite statements about infinity.

Consider this thought experiment.

You have a ribbon of infinite length. Now join the ends together to make a Möbius strip. Now staring at a point on the surface of the Möbius strip how far do you travel around the surface of the Möbius strip to get back to the point where you started?

If the answer is an infinite distance is it the same infinite distance as the original length of the ribbon?
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I thought infinity didn't have an end and therefore it would be impossible to join the two ends.
 
Conscript said:
You have spent the last 12 hours or so arguing about mass/density/volume?

What about the more interesting questions about the origins of the universe?

And I lol'd hard when I saw Tefal's pic :D
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I think its cos Im welsh. I lol'd at his pic too hehe and the length of time we spent debating only to end up at the same place

post by Kaed
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that does bring up the idea what would we do once the universe has ended - could we possibly pull energy from photons? c.e.r.n to my knowledge are working on creating particles by smashing them together - not sure what they would find but an idea would be to create energy that was used to create the big bang. at the end of the day, when there was nothingness there must have been something to permit the big bang, hence something was able to outlast the universe and still be powerful enough to create such a dramatic event.
 
DavidMarq said:
Be wary of making of making definite statements about infinity.

Consider this thought experiment.

You have a ribbon of infinite length. Now join the ends together to make a Möbius strip. Now staring at a point on the surface of the Möbius strip how far do you travel around the surface of the Möbius strip to get back to the point where you started?

If the answer is an infinite distance is it the same infinite distance as the original length of the ribbon?
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that doesn't make sense, if you had an infinate ribbon you would not be able to join it up as it does not have any ends.
 
beckster said:
I thought infinity didn't have an end and therefore it would be impossible to join the two ends.
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This is why it has to be a thought experiment. ;)

But if I accept you cannot join the ends:

Cut the same ribbon at any point along its length with a pair of scissors. How long are the two pieces?
 
yantorsen said:
exactly the same as each other, there infinatly long.

for one to be smaller the original ribbon couldnt have been infinity, it must have just been very long.
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Take it one step further, remembering this is just a thought experiment. Cut the ribbon into an infinite number of pieces. How long are the pieces?
 
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