This Business and Moment...

[Kreeeee]

I wouldn't mind going to London now and then, but would prefer working from home over 50% of the time. I think I need to progress beyond doing and into management or sales to get into 3 figures. Contracting is all well and good but I'm wanting something more stable after the current contract. One option I guess is to join the PSO team with VMware which wouldn't be far off, then push for promotion in a few years.

The two people I know both do consultancy work in the field of complex sales for IT projects.

 

[wingman]

They're running a business. If they can get you to stay for 2.5% they will. You need to start going for those 20% jobs. It's not personal; it's business. And that cuts both ways. But don't forget that that extra salary can be quickly eaten up by tax, national insurance, commuting costs, and so on. Be hard-headed and run the numbers.

Indeed. FWIW a lot of the jobs I'm being approached about are similar commuting times - even shorter in some cases - with other benefits included as well (an improved pension, continued development incentives, a more challenging role).

You're absolutely right though and it's always worth looking at everything. I appreciate your angle on this.

I get the frustration. You've been there 4 years, you want to grow and progress your career. You want to stay where you are but its hard to ignore other potentials of 20%+ increase in the salary. That is enough to make a difference to your lifestyle. Also it isn't just about money, you mention challenges...it sounds like you're unfulfilled in your current role?

I get the impression (as it has been brought up in the past) that the company wants you but either doesn't have the budget or want to pay the extra for someone like you. It becomes a repeating scenario of you voice your concerns, management listens, tries to address them as politically they can, make small changes in hopes it offsets this for the time being but unless a big change happens, it is inevitable it will keep repeating. Are there any senior opportunities within your current company? which you could look at moving into? That way you maintain a good relationship with where you are but you still get the new challenge and financial gain as well.

Regarding the burning the bridges comment. Ultimately the only way you will do that is if you handed in your notice and you basically stopped working until your notice period was over. All you can ever do on that side is hand it in and carry on as you normally would for the notice period and where possible, go above and beyond. If it turns sour grapes due to management responding badly, well that shows where you really stood after all this time anyway. So don't panic about that.

What is it you do, if you don't mind me asking?

The bonus thing still has a big question mark for me. Its a response without a reply. They've given you an answer without an answer. Also I wouldn't hold much confidence in a manager who states what he gave you when asked for a reason. So bonuses are pot luck by that reason given? lol I would be annoyed as well.

The next position up in my company is the head of that department, as such there are no current potential ladder climbs as of this moment.

There's an element of unfulfillment for sure, it's offset by the relative level of comfort, and not to mention I'm approached my many people across the business - and quite often - for assistance. It's fulfilling in that respect, but in regards to pushing myself forwards, I can't say I've learned a great deal - certainly not in the last 12 months.

I work in finance, I'm an accountant for a non-financial company (i.e. I work in management accounts rather than in practice, I don't think I could ever work in practice to be honest).

Ha, I had the same response. I feel like a bit of a tool for getting a bonus now as I pushed for it, but at the same time I genuinely just wanted to know why I didn't. I didn't say "I want one", I said "I'd like to know what I could do to secure one going forward". Still, I won't complain.

 

[randomshenans]

@wingman go for interviews, it's the only way to find out. I used to do it loads, just to see what the competitors were doing. A lot of the time I felt my day to day activities would be more meh at the time, but eventually found one I really liked the sound of so went for it.

 

[Martynt74]

@wingman

I agree about going to interviews. Sometimes it's the only way to get a bigger payrise. I work in a similar situation to you (FP&A Analyst so Finance for non financial company) and was being approached about roles at a higher level. Was offered one of them and went to discuss it with my manager who increased my salary inline with the new offer as they didn't want to lose me, and that was a jump from 32k to 39k. I'm fairly sure that level of increase wouldn't have come about without the other offer.

 

[randomshenans]

Just heading to a meeting about Blockchain with the novartis international heads of their department. I do NOTHING blockchain related at work, but obviously outside I do, would love to actually do something fun at work so have been plotting ways of making that happen... see what happens.

 

[TallPaul_S]

1 week to go now in my role, and typically I'm the busiest I've been here since I started! Hopefully things will start to wind down towards the end of the week.

 

[Josh]

Chaps,

Please excuse my ignorance with this but,

When, during an interview is the correct time to raise the subject of the salary I want? My figure is within the scope of what they are offering but on the higher side of the offer.

Having never been in a position to have salary talks with a prospective employer I'm unsure how/when it happens and/or the correct way to broach it.

Any advice would be appreciated.

 

[Martynt74]

Few factors really.

1 - Have you got direct or through a recruiter?

If direct then did the application ask for a desired salary, if so they know what you want.

If through a recruiter then i imagine you've had that chat with them and they'll have relayed the info.


Not sure about others but i wouldn't discuss money until an offer has been made. You know your figure is within scope so don't worry about it yet.

 

[Josh]

Thanks @Marvt74 - applied directly but didn't include my expectations on the CV or covering letter.

A colleague who also has a role within the company advised that it would be discussed in the second interview which is this week.

I think due to not having done this before I don't want to be caught off guard.

Leaving it until the offer is made wasn't something I had thought of, thank you for that.

 

[Martynt74]

Yeah i think if they discuss in the second interview it's a good time but don't worry if they don't. Most interviews i've had haven't really mentioned it until offer stage.

 

[TallPaul_S]

Generally I've found it's a question they will ask at some point in the interview process.

 

[randomshenans]

Balls ***** ****. Mairie won't allow us to do what we want on the house. I've come up with a very simple renovation for the house and lowered the budget significantly with the view to trying to renovate and make a profit on it. Sent this to the architect and will see what they come back with. Our issue is that there really aren't that many properties that come up in our area (where we want to stay) that match this criteria and scope. If we can get this one and do a good job on a budget, we could hopefully not only make somewhere nice to live (wife is so desperate to move due to building work around us) but also get us some cash out of it in the end and the next build will be even better

 

[Ev0]

I wouldn't mind going to London now and then, but would prefer working from home over 50% of the time. I think I need to progress beyond doing and into management or sales to get into 3 figures. Contracting is all well and good but I'm wanting something more stable after the current contract. One option I guess is to join the PSO team with VMware which wouldn't be far off, then push for promotion in a few years.

Look at technical pre sales roles, best of both worlds

You get to keep your hand in at being technical, but also get some of the rewards that come with being in sales.

Granted you don’t get as much reward as going full sales person, but there’s also usually less risk and less pressure.

Best thing I ever did moving into a technical sales role.

Edit just to add I live nowhere near London, work from home most of the time or am visiting clients.

 

[Basher]

Look at technical pre sales roles, best of both worlds

You get to keep your hand in at being technical, but also get some of the rewards that come with being in sales.

Granted you don’t get as much reward as going full sales person, but there’s also usually less risk and less pressure.

Best thing I ever did moving into a technical sales role.

Edit just to add I live nowhere near London, work from home most of the time or am visiting clients.

Agree with this. I know pre-sales/specialist sales people here (big IT company) earning £200k+ so it's a great balance of sales, playing with great new tech without the insane pressure our sales teams are under.

 

[Deleted member 651465]

Thanks @Marvt74 - applied directly but didn't include my expectations on the CV or covering letter.

A colleague who also has a role within the company advised that it would be discussed in the second interview which is this week.

I think due to not having done this before I don't want to be caught off guard.

Leaving it until the offer is made wasn't something I had thought of, thank you for that.

Almost every employer I've spoken to asks about salary when they give you an offer, whereas recruiters typically ask about your expectations up-front.

Tip: Always answer with "I can't accept less than x"... be firm, because every employer will try to chip you for few £k. For instance, if they offer £40k and you say "I was hoping for more" they'll offer £43k and eventually £45k if you are willing to push. If you open with "I can't accept less than £47k" then they may try to go in with a £45k offer but you are in a better position to argue it.

 

[ChrisD.]

Look at technical pre sales roles, best of both worlds

You get to keep your hand in at being technical, but also get some of the rewards that come with being in sales.

Granted you don’t get as much reward as going full sales person, but there’s also usually less risk and less pressure.

Best thing I ever did moving into a technical sales role.

Edit just to add I live nowhere near London, work from home most of the time or am visiting clients.

Excellent, thanks. I guess the best way to break out of the contractor SME type roles that I've been doing is to go permanent and then push into this later down the line?

I've been told that it should be straight forward for me to go permanent within PSO at VMware so I guess it's one path.

 

[Josh]

Thanks @EVH that's just what I was after.

I'll open with "I can't accept less than X" and see what happens. I'm prepared to walk away if I can't get what I want but hopefully should I get an offer it won't come to that.

 

[Ev0]

Excellent, thanks. I guess the best way to break out of the contractor SME type roles that I've been doing is to go permanent and then push into this later down the line?

I've been told that it should be straight forward for me to go permanent within PSO at VMware so I guess it's one path.

If you are an SME in something now then no reason to look to do a pre sales role in that right away, it’s just getting that ‘in’.

Some places want you to have had some exposure to the sales side of things before, but it’s certainly not a hard requirement for most places.

I made an internal move into this role way back when, but we hire externally when we need people as well, it’s all about who is out there that suits the position!

I know in our team there can sometimes be a little difference of opinion as to what type of person we should go for.

Do you go for a techy/services person who might know the technology inside out, but are new to sales so you have to reach them that side of things. For instance some guys are amazing with the technology, but I couldn’t put them in front of a client

Or do you go for someone who is already in the sales world but you then have to teach them the technology, and in some instances even teach them about the sector you’re working in as a whole.

But it’s certainly a good place to be, can’t see me moving away from this sort of role anytime soon.

 

[ChrisD.]

Thanks. I have no issues in front of clients, I've taught for the best part of the previous 15 years and I've been in my fair share of stakeholder meetings.

I'll have a dig around the job boards and see what's around.

 

[Ev0]

Yeah check all the usual places and LinkedIn etc, look for terms used such as presales, often referred to as ‘sales engineer’ by companies.