This Business and Moment...

[HangTime]

Do you work from home now? Do you have a partner/kids?

I'd have to be offered a significant package jump to do that commute twice a week.

I have a family and go in the office about once a month. I used to do the same commute 4 days a week before the pandemic, the time away from home is annoying but I don't mind the actual art of commuting that much (when things are running to schedule). It does factor into my decision however, and due to the extreme effective marginal tax rate there needs to be a fair chunk of gross to make it worthwhile.

Regarding bonus compensation, I don't see why tying it probation period would be that different from a EoY bonus (given to reach end of year I'd have to have got past the probation period), except I'd presumably get it quicker if it was based on probation period. Paying it as a signing bonus up front puts too much risk on the employer, e.g. if they hire you and you are rubbish they aren't going to want to have forked out a lump sum. To me it makes for a stronger position because it demonstrates confidence in my ability to pass the probation, and is harder to argue against because by definition to pass probation one must be performing to the desired standard. Basically it is a case of, I'm giving up £x to join you, to make the move work I need that £x, but I'm prepared to prove my worth first so long as it is a guaranteed pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.

 

[dowie]

Regarding bonus compensation, I don't see why tying it probation period would be that different from a EoY bonus (given to reach end of year I'd have to have got past the probation period), except I'd presumably get it quicker if it was based on probation period. Paying it as a signing bonus up front puts too much risk on the employer, e.g. if they hire you and you are rubbish they aren't going to want to have forked out a lump sum.

Because if it's due soon and you're just missing it then it's got little to nothing to do with your performance for them rather it's bonus you're already due to be paid and would be giving up to move to them.

If it would otherwise be paid by your current employer if you were to say delay joining for say another month and they don't want you to delay joining then... well they really ought to pay you an equivalent amount as a sign-on.

Ideally, just don't join until after you've got the bonus if it's significant, presumably it gets paid in Jan or Feb? But if they're really keen to hire you right now then...

If you were joining mid-year with say 6 months to go then that's different you would otherwise be looking at getting a pro-rata bonus from them but with part of a bonus already earned elsewhere, you'd perhaps ask for a guarantee re: the bonus you've already earned. In this case you're looking at no bonus or negligible bonus from them if they're also due to pay out bonuses just before you join but you're missing out on one from your current employer, you don't need to turn that into any "I'm confident in my ability", "let me prove myself" bravado, you're simply due a bonus and you'd like to be compensated if they're keen for you to start ASAP.

 

[HangTime]

It's a waste of their money paying out bonuses for other companies if the person turns out to be useless though. That's why it relates to my performance, because this bonus is only worth paying if they are getting someone capable in. So they pay the money to get the preferred candidate but with the insurance policy that it is void if probation isn't passed (otherwise theoretically I could just trouser the cash and then not bother coming into work, get dismissed etc but be partying on their dime in the Maldives). Obviously they have bigger problems if they have to get rid of me and find a replacement, but it all adds up.

This idea that the bonus is already [largely] earned, that's true but it wasn't earned on behalf of that company. Whatever I've done at the other employer doesn't help them, it's really a point of negotiation just like everything else - they need to offer the right overall package to get people to move regardless of whether that is salary, bonus, pension, company car etc etc. They could argue that giving up the bonus is outweighed by improved overall remuneration i.e. they don't need to pay my bonus to make the move attractive, because they are already compensating me in other ways.

The bonus isn't that huge that delaying joining would be a big benefit, by the time you factor in reduced salary, reduced pension contributions, pro-rata bonus reduction, having to stay in current job etc. It's not only that you have to delay joining, you typically can't even resign your position until bonuses get paid so the clock doesn't even start ticking on the notice period for ages. I see it (the option of delaying one's resignation) more as leverage for negotiation than a serious proposition.

 

[dowie]

It's a waste of their money paying out bonuses for other companies if the person turns out to be useless though. [...]

The bonus isn't that huge that delaying joining would be a big benefit

Ah, I guess that explains it. In some industries the bonus is significant, you're absolutely correct to point out it is a (potentially) a waste of their money paying someone for a bonus earned elsewhere (which is why people tend to move just after bonuses have been paid) but if they're in a situation where they *have* to hire someone asap for a role then they're stuck and people with a significant bonus due to be paid will want to be compensated.

 

[Ev0]

I’d probably ask for it as a signing bonus, which usually have the conditions of you have to pay it back if you leave within 12 months.

You get the bonus money, new company get it back if you’re useless

 

[NickK]

So managed to get to second round for a permanent position this morning on about 3 hours sleep and 38.1degC temp. Head think, but the interview seemed to be good so just waiting.
In the meantime i have manflu

 

[Cadder]

Trying to figure out the warmest country we can move to but still operate the UK Ltd company.

I think I understand the basics for Spain (Canaries) - just register self employed and bill the UK Ltd Co as required. I just don't have any figures to compare how that works out financially.

Any expats here with ideas to throw about? Regardless of location really, it's all information I would find interesting and useful.

 

[mattx4]

Trying to figure out the warmest country we can move to but still operate the UK Ltd company.

I think I understand the basics for Spain (Canaries) - just register self employed and bill the UK Ltd Co as required. I just don't have any figures to compare how that works out financially.

Any expats here with ideas to throw about? Regardless of location really, it's all information I would find interesting and useful.

Are you looking for a permanent move or just getting out of the UK for a bit?

There's a lot of countries offering digital nomad visa's you dont go through the hassel of becoming a full resident so no tax implications but the visas are usually only 3-12 months.

Countries Offering Digital Nomad Visas

Remote work opportunities have expanded significantly since the pandemic. Here are 40 of the regions offering programs for aspiring digital nomads.

www.investopedia.com

If I had a remote Job in my 20s and before kids would have considered some of these

 

[Cadder]

Are you looking for a permanent move or just getting out of the UK for a bit?

There's a lot of countries offering digital nomad visa's you dont go through the hassel of becoming a full resident so no tax implications but the visas are usually only 3-12 months.

Countries Offering Digital Nomad Visas

Remote work opportunities have expanded significantly since the pandemic. Here are 40 of the regions offering programs for aspiring digital nomads.

www.investopedia.com

If I had a remote Job in my 20s and before kids would have considered some of these

Thanks for that I will look into it. I am fortunate that I can carry out my work anywhere with a decent PC and Internet. Early 30's but no kids. Even 6 months to a year away would be enough I think.

 

[dod]

Trying to figure out the warmest country we can move to but still operate the UK Ltd company.

I think I understand the basics for Spain (Canaries) - just register self employed and bill the UK Ltd Co as required. I just don't have any figures to compare how that works out financially.

Any expats here with ideas to throw about? Regardless of location really, it's all information I would find interesting and useful.

I’m not sure it’s quite as easy as that. My understanding is that the self employed visa depends on a business plan based on running a business in Spain.
There are actually a couple of decent Facebook sites with pretty knowledgeable Spanish professionals if you have a quick search

 

[NickK]

So just got an offer for a perm role - just waiting for a clarification on the expected start date.

 

[randomshenans]

Awesome! What's the role? Less of a cluster **** than your contract?

 

[NickK]

Awesome! What's the role? Less of a cluster **** than your contract?

This contract was good, and the team are back to performance.. i will have to target the longer term steps and get them to build a map forward the issue is that i’m working through the prime contractor so the role sits disjointed to what is envisioned.
The new role sits in the group company and crosses mutiple airlines.

 

[OspreyO]

-- sorry for lengthy rant

I've been through many up and down phases throughout my IT career and I think I'm currently in a sort of down phase. Not down like things are bad...more that I'm lacking motivation to do much. I would almost describe myself as having quiet quit at times. I've started to distance myself from the daily stand ups and meetings and try not to sign up to much of that stuff as I feel the majority of these daily calls just waste my time.

The company I work for pay me adequately (although pay rises and bonus will dry up now in the current climate) and I don't really have an issue with any of that. It's not market leading pay in my sector, but it's competitive which is fine. The company look after us really well. Office is nice. Boss I get on with well. He's hands off, if anything sometimes I wish he was more ballsy and tackled some of the issues.

The things that are getting me down are just that we like to think we are agile and use the latest things but we're not. We are stuck using some old legacy systems and software and to truly move forward, I don't think it's possible. We have had a new CTO come in a while back and he wanted to make a load of changes aggressively and did a head count shake up of some managers. Fine. My job is secure anyway. But I think he is now realizing that if he wants to be one of these CTO's that comes along, makes a load of change and leaves with his head held high about improvements after 2-3 years as they go on to the next one, well... they can't. We are not agile despite using agile methodologies and sprints and high cadence releases. The number one thing that slows us down and causes a lot of pain in our company is our infrastructure/ops team. Everything is funnelled through them for control.

I cba to go into the details, but I've never worked anywhere as incompetent. Can take over a month to get a single port opened as an example of what we're dealing with. Some of the pipelines I have written are so fragile, because I have to place workarounds and hacks in there just to get **** done. Half my life is spent raising tickets to get X unlocked or opened up. The thing is they can't see it this way. To them its business as usual and more evidence that they are supposedly so important and needed for things to function. If the business come up with an idea to implement, infra team often literally just tell the business nope, not on our watch. Not doing it. Stuff like that. It doesn't help that the boss of said department is very much of the military type focusing so much on security. Very ticket driven. Everything has to be a ticket. You can barely have a conversation with them now without raising a ticket.
This is becoming a rant now apologies...

Anyway basically I tell my boss all this stuff and that all the devs/engineers and apps guys are blocked and he's like.... yeah, and doesn't ever tackle it. Nobody in the business wants to address these fundamental inter team issues. Having been here now for 4 years, I feel it's time to move on to truly unlock the potential of working with new tools and Azure cloud. I'm meant to be training and learning Azure stuff but guess what...locked down by infra guys so we can't do anything anyway.

We recently moved to cloud and it was very much driven by the infra team. Rather than the application specialists driving the best ways to do things, it was them telling us how it has to be done. All the benefits of new cloud tools are locked down to us which hampers our progress.

My commute is into London and means 3 hours a day on train and tube when I do go in. I only do a couple of days a week but it's got to the point where I kind of want to go fully remote or 1 day a week, or something closer to home. I know before COVID I would have bitten someone's arm off for 2 days a week compared to the 4/5 I was doing. But times change. I've seen the light as have many that commuting 3 hours a day to tick a mandatory attendance box, is just lame. In the office I get less done anyway. More distractions and noise.

I looked at contracting but now with the current economy and U turn on the IR35 stuff I kind of want the security of where I'm at. So I thought to skill up in Azure stuff then look at moving next year. I just really lack the motivation to care right now about training on top of day to day work. No major projects going on or interesting stuff. Been in the game nearly 2 decades now... a bit of a lull. I guess I should stop complaining and be thankful really.

I'm in a bit of a similar situation but ironically on the DevOps/Infrastructure side. But same thing there's a couple of lead guys in infrastructure/security locking everything down and acting as gatekeepers on many workflows. To the point where I'm avoiding new things, including learning new things, so I don't have to go through them. I feel like I'm quietly quitting too, and I hate being that person. Same as you through everyone complains but nothing is done.

 

[MichaelAwkward]

Finally getting around to completing my PER so I can become a fully fledged ACCA member... only 4 months after passing my final exam. Should've done it alongside the exams really rather than leaving it until the end.

Still locked in at my current workplace for 3 years unless I get offered a big enough payrise to cover paying back some of the study costs.

 

[wingman]

Finally getting around to completing my PER so I can become a fully fledged ACCA member... only 4 months after passing my final exam. Should've done it alongside the exams really rather than leaving it until the end.

Still locked in at my current workplace for 3 years unless I get offered a big enough payrise to cover paying back some of the study costs.

Congratulations on passing the exams.

I did the PER prior to finishing my final, I knew I wanted nothing else holding me back for that last paper.

I've been qualified just under a year, so this year I'll need to focus on getting some CPD under my belt.

Still think I should've gone down the management accounting route with CIMA but with ACCA it doesn't appear to have held me back in that regard.

 

[The Funktopus]

Starting my BOSIET & MIST course tomorrow, after which I can hopefully get myself out of working deep sea.

 

[Jokester]

Starting my BOSIET & MIST course tomorrow, after which I can hopefully get myself out of working deep sea.

Have fun during your dunking!

 

[MichaelAwkward]

Congratulations on passing the exams.

I did the PER prior to finishing my final, I knew I wanted nothing else holding me back for that last paper.

I've been qualified just under a year, so this year I'll need to focus on getting some CPD under my belt.

Still think I should've gone down the management accounting route with CIMA but with ACCA it doesn't appear to have held me back in that regard.

Will you stick to the ACCA CPD courses or do your own thing?

I would've thought the opposite was the case, CIMA being more limiting where as ACCA allows working across more fields?

 

[wingman]

Will you stick to the ACCA CPD courses or do your own thing?

I would've thought the opposite was the case, CIMA being more limiting where as ACCA allows working across more fields?

I'll probably do their CPD courses for now. There's a fair few other things you can do like attend various functions to gain hours here and there, which are normally worthwhile. But they do tend to be loaded more towards financial accountants rather than management.