This Business and Moment...

Possibly even to try and bargain you back in, but honestly the focus should be on understanding

Yeah the guy just didn't seem to understand the fact that if somebody abruptly hands their notice in and wants out, especially someone they never speak to - it's a pretty open and shut situation and not worth arguing or getting bent out of shape about.

But then again - that attitude and general situation is one of the reasons I want out so badly anyway, it's a weird, weird place.
 
Possibly even to try and bargain you back in, but honestly the focus should be on understanding
I'm of the opinion that if someone wants to leave and it's regrettable attrition, it's my job to try to tease out any learnings or failures on my part. I'm certainly not going to stop them from leaving though - their mind is made and it's my job to now make it as easy for them to leave on good terms.

My last manager had the same philosophy as me, and would never make any sort of counteroffer when someone handed in their resignation. It's far too late for that by that point.
 
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Have a bit of a dilemma.

Company I work for took a chance on me (in my 30's, right time right place) with no prior experience to pay for me to do a masters in Construction Management and work site based as an estimator.

I'm nearly 2 years in with 6 months of my masters to go. I'm extremely greatful for the opportunity, however the commute is 1 hour 20 each way (north of Manchester) and the atmosphere on site is toxic which is starting to impact my mental health (never had issues before). Working from home or in the office (only 20 minutes from home) isn't allowed. Been offered another job closer to home (15 minutes), office and home based, rarely on site, slightly more money and they will take on the cost of the remaining 6 months of the course.

I have no money to pay back (I've checked the contract) and other then loyalty as they took a chance seems a no brainier as I'm quite unhappy currently. I could speak to my manager but 100% they will not move me closer to home or allow me to work from home. I know it's only 6 months but I've been delaying the inevitable for a long time now and 6 months is still a long enough time. Is it really bad if I leave after all they have done?
 
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Is it really bad if I leave after all they have done?

They paid for the course to benefit them, not you - that was just a secondary benefit. They wanted someone who had this degree to further their aims. Don't feel bad, if they were foolish enough not to put a payback clause in the contract when this was paid for them it's up to them. You don't owe any business a damn thing.
 
They paid for the course to benefit them, not you - that was just a secondary benefit. They wanted someone who had this degree to further their aims. Don't feel bad, if they were foolish enough not to put a payback clause in the contract when this was paid for them it's up to them. You don't owe any business a damn thing.
Absolutely this.
 
Final interview in Friday lunchtime in the midst of my week of night shifts. Going to be in a sleep-deprived state in a hotel. Any advice?!
Assuming it is a video interview, in this situation I'd probably 'apologise' at the start of the interview for the strange background / potential flaky connection. Breaks the ice a bit and may lead to you casually dropping your situation into the conversation.

I've done interviews on little sleep before and for me personally it's fine because the adrenaline gets pumping, conversation underway and I don't feel tired until the interview is finished. Although it potentially could impact your powers of recall so just make sure you have rehearsed some examples you might need to bring up, potentially have a cheat sheet of reminders.

Obviously don't crawl out of bed 2mins beforehand, give yourself time to do your hair etc :)
 
Putting in some hours to get some work done at the moment 12 hours yesterday, 15 hours so far today and I think I will call it.

I still need to sort out a heap of mess but I'm thinking I may leave that till tomorrow morning anyway, it's updates to the work from yesterday and I'm going to have an early night.

Some times you have hard core weeks when you need to break the back of things. Almost there.
 
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Currently trying to debate what the best option is with moving to spain. I think i have 2 options where i either become self employed and invoice the company in the UK. This can have issues around mortgage and social security and generally is more hassle. Although might work out better from a Net Income point of view.

The other option is to move my contract to a Spanish entity within the group. This seems like the best option. It's much more permanent and then also get to keep all the benefits of being imployed, health insurance etc. The only thing i'm not sure of is whether it makes sense to value my contract in Euros or GBP.

Euros makes sense because then it's constant, i'm not worrying about fx swings
GBP makes sense because FX rates are currently pretty low compared to historic rates (i'm thinking pre Brexit). Do i want to lock in a conversion at this point when it *might* improve in the future by a decent percentage.

Maybe a kind of hybrid, where annual salary adjustment looks at the GBP cost and re-converts but then that's asking the company to take all the risk as i doubt i'd ever want to end up with a lower salary from one year to the next!
 
It's been a busy few weeks.

Attempting to be all /r/dataisbeautiful

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Out of interest, why do you have separate categories for "No response" and "No interview" given that they both come immediately as the next step after application (there doesn't seem to be e.g. a scenario where you go from Recruiter interview to No interview)? Does the latter have a breakdown of reasons you were told for not being interviewed?
 
Out of interest, why do you have separate categories for "No response" and "No interview" given that they both come immediately as the next step after application (there doesn't seem to be e.g. a scenario where you go from Recruiter interview to No interview)? Does the latter have a breakdown of reasons you were told for not being interviewed?

I guess could be for applying direct. One would be lack of response, whereas the other is a decline. I would say it's a valid separation.
 
Yeah I'm not suggesting it is invalid, just curious. I was wondering if there was further analysis breaking down the reason for not being offered an interview because that makes the distinction more useful. I assumed these were direct applications as whenever he speaks to a recruiter he either gets an interview or is still awaiting response (I assume there is a time threshold before this is considered No response). Although with 1 offer and a 2nd interview pending hopefully he won't actually need this analysis :)
 
Out of interest, why do you have separate categories for "No response" and "No interview" given that they both come immediately as the next step after application (there doesn't seem to be e.g. a scenario where you go from Recruiter interview to No interview)? Does the latter have a breakdown of reasons you were told for not being interviewed?

I've been giving it 2 weeks before giving the 'no response' tag to the initial applications 'no interview' is for when I've had a response back of "you're not selected for an interview".

So some of those recruiter interviews will probably turn into no interview in a couple of days when they hit the 2 week mark.


Had the offer through today though. It's a good bump in salary and a very interesting role with the potential to work on 'cool' things due to the level of security clearance.

Losing flex days off will suck though - been used to 80 days off for too long.
 
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Two successful interviews within the last 2 weeks and I now have 2 offers on the table basically, just awaiting the formal paperwork to read through and pick which suits my long term goals the best. Didn't expect to be in this position but sometimes things seem to work out I guess.

I currently work for BAE, one of the offers is at BAE so would effectively be an internal transfer and the role itself appears to be be the same sort of thing I've been doing since October as an interim responsibility (basically doing 2 roles for the salary of one lol) so learned it with no previous knowledge and turned it around for the better. The upshot with this is that there's no extra faff involved, I accept the offer and I transfer over right away, HR do the rest behind the scenes. There's good career progression in the new role too but it's also fast moving so I'd be able to learn a lot. It's also a grade higher in salary and I was asked what salary I was looking for as a minimum before recruitment team sent the app to the hiring manager, so the fact that they offered me the interview means they have accepted the salary I was asking for, and now that the interview has been a success, I just need to see if they formally offer the figure I asked, or they punch it up a bit as the grade has a wide margin.

The other interview was for the mod, so defence sector again but a different type of role. It's much closer to home, so I'd be walking 15 minutes door to door vs the 1hr it currently takes me. It is lower salary, but again the grading has a margin, so once an offer is made, I'd be looking to then negotiate the salary.

It's a tricky position because I need to decide which one offers the best potential for my growth. Mod has strong pensions long term, but BAE has higher salaries, with scope to move around regularly internally and get higher pay more often too. I currently work 2 days in office and 3 days from home, the new roles would need more days in office from both places, with the option once settled to work out a hybrid situation. The Mod one also has the flexibility to do a 4 day working week if I wanted to do the 37 hours over 4 days for example, and both have flexi hours anyway. Both offers have good managers as well having spent some time with them and I have had taster days with the BAE role too and been told that if I feel it's right for me, then to make the call basically.

As usual, HR teams from both time ages to get back to you on stuff lol, seems universal at the speed these departments operate. I applied to Mod in March as an example, and only now have this news. No 2nd interviews needed.

With BAE, I have the shares incentive plan I'm a part of, and that's really quite ;lucrative, as well as the yearly bonuses and payments we get anyway, so money wise the logic in the noodle says stay, but Mod offers other benefits too. I need to list out the pros and cons of both this weekend and decide!

A good line manager will help promote your skills and develop you as an individual, and if after what you learn/attain through that progression you wish to move on as that's what's best for you, then they will support that too, luckily both manager's from both places appear to be that way minded, and they both said they really hope that an individual will remain and put their new skills to use within the business, but they can't hold it against someone for choosing an external offer as well if that's what's right for them.

Decisions decisions....
 
Reading that the BAE role sounds better (easier transition, more money, share options, you know what you are getting into having done it as interim) however given you need to spend 3+ days in the office the commuting factor might come into it.

I'm a bit confused about the offer status though, for MOD you say "once an offer is made, I'd be looking to then negotiate the salary". Is it basically they have said "we'd like to hire you and will come back with a number" or something?
I think you need to get the numbers for both and then see where any negotiation goes before you can decide, you might get surprised from either or both parties. My expectation (could be wrong) is that the MOD would be more rigid.
 
Rigidity at mod would definitely be the case yes, they follow a set-out process for basically everything - I only knew of the positive outcome a week early as I was informally told about it as they knew I was awaiting the BAE interview too so I think they just wanted to not keep me hanging in-case I got the other role and accepted it etc.
Is it basically they have said "we'd like to hire you and will come back with a number" or something?
Essentially that's how I read it yes although there's only so much they can say until it follows the formal process. I should be getting the offer from Mod today or tomorrow, and the BAE offer in writing early next week.
 
So mod provisional formal offer came in, they've essentially offered the bottom of the grade and the wording states non negotiable, so I will be choosing the bae role really as even the baseline grade is nearly 15k higher!

Shame that our own government can't seem to make a decent salary offer in the same sector...
 
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So mod provisional formal offer came in, they've essentially offered the bottom of the grade and the wording states non negotiable, so I will be choosing the bae role really as even the baseline grade is nearly 15k higher!

Shame that our own government can't seem to make a decent salary offer in the same sector...

I'm not even shocked, they were looking for a Head of Cyber Security role at 57k.

 
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