Time for fuel cell / hydrogen car?

I don't dislike Tesla at all, I think they have given the industry a kick up the behind and I would love one.

What I was showing was the huge social media presence that Tesla have through their sponsorship of many different youtube channels which makes it difficult to separate fandom from reality.

It is the same for many different youtube channels, some are easy to spot and others are more difficult.

So because he owns a Tesla, and made a few videos, this means all if his other content is now worthless?

The viewpoints put across in a lot of the videos he produces are very balanced, and you can actually see that he tries to avoid bias, pointing out both sides of an argument, hence Undecided.
 
Yes, credit where credit is due - my take is Tesla may take claim to be real modern 'Model T' equivalent. And don't get me started - I know Priuses and likes were first, but really modern electric car for casual Mr. Smith on the street was given by Tesla.
And yes - hydrogen now is not on par with electric. Won't be for lack of infrastructure and infant days problems.
But I think there will be hydrogen technology breakthrough first before battery technology overcomes weight&charging obstacles and we'll see that taking over in next 10 years or so..

EDIT:
One more thing. Remember times when supercomputers were size of small building, like 20 years ago..? And do you realize modern mobiles have fairly similiar processing power now? - technology progress made it possible in 20 years and progress curve is only starting to go ezxponential - who knows what we'll have in few years
 
One more thing. Remember times when supercomputers were size of small building, like 20 years ago..? And do you realize modern mobiles have fairly similiar processing power now?

That's not quite right though is is in 2000 the IBM ASCI White was at 7.226 TFLOPS, and if any phone could do that now in the same way it is measured for super computers I'd be flabbergasted.
 
That's not quite right though is is in 2000 the IBM ASCI White was at 7.226 TFLOPS, and if any phone could do that now in the same way it is measured for super computers I'd be flabbergasted.

Maybe not a phone but the point is vaguely valid - a GTX2080 measures in at something like 13-14TFLOPS and doesn't weigh the 106 tons, nor draw the 3MW+3MW of power the ASCI White did.
 
Maybe not a phone but the point is vaguely valid - a GTX2080 measures in at something like 13-14TFLOPS and doesn't weigh the 106 tons, nor draw the 3MW+3MW of power the ASCI White did.

Yes and I agree computers have come along way but a 250w GPU is still about 100x more than a phone, PPW will get there by 2031 or thereabouts for a phone. :)
 
How much extra do EVs weigh over a standard vehicle? I suspect 20-40% extra weight isn't very efficient.

Doesn’t matter so much when you have regen, that’s way more efficient than heating up brakes.

Let's take one point at a time.

What do you mean by infrastructure? There are already simple autonomous hydrogen production systems that can be installed anywhere.

Okay so if that was the case (which it isn’t) then you now have only caught up with generating hydrogen. EV is already done.

If that needs to be explained then I don’t think anymore descriptions will land.
 
You need to put in a lot more electricity than you get back in hydrogen though. Thats what is holding it back. You need to take an extra step vs just charging a battery.

Then you also need to compress it to a very high psi to store a useful amount. Not the sort of thing people can do at home.
 
Is having electricity and water complicated :confused:

Plug&Play

https://www.itm-power.com/hgas1se

It isn't complicated (on a small scale), you're right. But it is mightily expensive.

That system you linked to would need over 6GWh of electricity per year, producing just 100,000kg of hydrogen. I have no idea how much the system itself costs, but at a wholesale cost of 5p per kWh, that is £300,000 in electricity alone. £3 per kg of hydrogen produced. They could install their own generation, but wind has an average ~50% yield on installed capacity in the UK. So they'd need a 1.4MW turbine (~£1m) and would still be dependent on the grid for balancing.

How many miles is 100,000kg of hydrogen good for? 6GW is enough to power BEVs for between 18,000,000 and 24,000,000 miles...
 
What do you mean by infrastructure? There are already simple autonomous hydrogen production systems that can be installed anywhere.
as said, those systems aren't yet energy efficient enough, and, we don't yet have surplus renewable/solar electricity to run them, either, which could, make hydrogen more competitive, for consumer use.

if you had that electricity the other advantages of hydrogen, lighter weight of the tank+fuel cell, and, probably lower carbon manufacture cost(vs battery) would come into play

R4, just this morning - motor manufacturer survey 'many' people aren't plugging in phev so they are more polluting than ice, due to the weight.



but really modern electric car for casual Mr. Smith on the street was given by Tesla.
I think we are waiting for vw, or others, to bring the technology to the masses, at a viable price, and tesla meantime are viewed, like a modern DeLorean, by the average UKer,
a pioneer, that will be overtaken, by more efficient manufactureres who will provide a peoples car.


the more familiar mobile phone processing analogy - is the computing power in a phone versus what which went to the moon. ?
but a 250w GPU is still about 100x more than a phone, PPW will get there by 2031 or thereabouts for a phone
PPW ?
phones and gpus are using the same transistor/fab technologies ~14nm, phones, if anything, being more energy efficient flops/watt,
processors in gpu's are not general purpose too ... why nvidia's buying arm ?

edit petaflops/watt ?
 
as said, those systems aren't yet energy efficient enough, and, we don't yet have surplus renewable/solar electricity to run them, either, which could, make hydrogen more competitive, for consumer use.
?

Of course we have a surplus. Haven't you ever seen wind turbines on a windy day doing nothing just because there is no demand on the grid?
 
This has been mentioned many times previously. If you are using renewables, efficiency does not really matter that much as you have an unlimited supply of energy you can use.

Its mentioned as its based on facts.
What on earth are you on about. Demand would grow quicker than supply, and then for such a 'unlimited' supply you need to build 3 times of what ever you are championing as this energy source.
 
Pretty sure that this topic, or at least the OP view is blinkered, and can't hold a balanced view of how and why it can't happen for a good deal of time yet, on any large scale at least.

Nevertheless it is something to aspire to, and it will be great when it does finally happen, and we are producing countless GWh of clean renewable electricity, and are no longer relying on Gas imports from Ukraine etc.

Set a google reminder to come back in 5 years, with the link to this thread and we'll see where we are, and if the OP bought a hydrogen powered car yet.
 
So- we're going to have ubiquitious renewable energy sources in the future- I get that. Why would we not use them for charging electric vehicles directly via the grid, than have this intermediate stage of producing Hydrogen? What do I gain as an average car user by having Hydrogen as a fuel source over pure electric?

Battery energy density is only going to increase over the coming years, so range will be less of an issue. I can see the value for heavy goods vehicles and the like.
 
Its mentioned as its based on facts.
What on earth are you on about. Demand would grow quicker than supply, and then for such a 'unlimited' supply you need to build 3 times of what ever you are championing as this energy source.

Are you satisfied that simple solutions for hydrogen production are already available, because that was one of your arguments? I have already provided you with a link but you haven't replied.

Not sure what your point is about demand growing quicker than supply. So what? Isn't there an alternative?
 
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