Titanic submersible confirmed destroyed with loss of all five souls onboard.

FoxEye said:
Why do you think this?
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Well, I mean , it's not like it just suddenly happened as they descended. There was a issue, we don't know what exactly, but it was bad enough to make them abort the dive. So they may have known the end was close for some period of time as they tried to ascend. Still it doesn't matter anymore.
 
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ThriceNightly said:
The carbon hull construction was 5 inches thick. Wonder if they are ever likely to retrieve any of the debris to see if they can ascertain what exactly failed. The Porthole window to me seems the weakest link.
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No, the porthole is absolutely fine if it's a proper full ocean depth porthole - they are designed to sit in titanium like an egg in an egg cup - self strengthening with more depth essentially - least likely part to fail after the solid titanium (rumours are it wasn't rated plexiglass for 4000m depth though - wouldn't surprise me considering how infuriatingly careless Ocean Gate was)

Look, folks, lots of opinions going around this thread, I'm a tad surprised at the lack of basic engineering knowledge also for a bunch of old men on this forum ;)

Listen, it's really really really really really obvious where the failure point was - the right angle where the carbon fibre is bonded to the titanium ring (onto which the end cap semi sphere titanium hulls are bolted on/one of which is a door) - the carbon fibre was glued on the INSIDE of the ring (madness!)

It's so unbelievably obvious, its smack you in the face with a fish at 1500 miles per hour while your world implodes around you kind of obvious!

Titanium half sphere ----> titanium ring ------{Failed here} ---> Carbon fibre tube

Why? Because the only thing holding out the carbon fibre tube against nearly 3 tons of force per square inch was.......the carbon fibre itself, which is a rubbish implosion resistant material.........I'd bet you £20 the glue on the inside of the titanium ring was trying to hold on - an inch or two into the carbon fibre tube had that force on it - and each layer of the CF cloth had been pulled apart abit and abit and abit more with each dive and ended up looking like the end of a frayed deck of playing cards.........once all those layers had been teased apart it just caved in coming away from the glued section on the titanium ring.

Basic stuff this, really obvious, its why absolutely zero other deep sea subs use CF and do not have right angles in their pressure spheres.

I only have an undergrad ocean science degree, and not to sound like a **** but I could have literally done a better job at designing that sub than Mr Rush, absolutely bell ***, completely ignored real basics here.

Rush by name, rushed by nature, ended up getting the full titanic experience ironically - dead and sunk.
 
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Combat squirrel said:
No, the porthole is absolutely fine if it's a proper full ocean depth porthole - they are designed to sit in titanium like an egg in an egg cup - self strengthening with more depth essentially - least likely part to fail after the solid titanium (rumours are it wasn't rated plexiglass for 4000m depth though - wouldn't surprise me considering how infuriatingly careless Ocean Gate was)

Look, folks, lots of opinions going around this thread, I'm a tad surprised at the lack of basic engineering knowledge also for a bunch of old men on this forum ;)

Listen, it's really really really really really obvious where the failure point was - the right angle where the carbon fibre is bonded to the titanium ring (onto which the end cap semi sphere titanium hulls are bolted on/one of which is a door) - the carbon fibre was glued on the INSIDE of the ring (madness!)

It's so unbelievably obvious, its smack you in the face with a fish at 1500 miles per hour while your world implodes around you kind of obvious!

Titanium half sphere ----> titanium ring ------{Failed here} ---> Carbon fibre tube

Why? Because the only thing holding out the carbon fibre tube against nearly 3 tons of force per square inch was.......the carbon fibre itself, which is a rubbish implosion resistant material.........I'd bet you £20 the glue on the inside of the titanium ring was trying to hold on - an inch or two into the carbon fibre tube had that force on it - and each layer of the CF cloth had been pulled apart abit and abit and abit more with each dive and ended up looking like the end of a frayed deck of playing cards.........once all those layers had been teased apart it just caved in coming away from the glued section on the titanium ring.

Basic stuff this, really obvious, its why absolutely zero other deep sea subs use CF and do not have right angles in their pressure spheres.

I only have an undergrad ocean science degree, and not to sound like a **** but I could have literally done a better job at designing that sub than Mr Rush, absolutely bell ***, completely ignored real basics here.

Rush by name, rushed by nature, ended up getting the full titanic experience ironically - dead and sunk.
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What kind of indication would they have received that there was a failure of this bond/seal?
 
Combat squirrel said:
I'd bet you £20 the glue on the inside of the titanium ring was trying to hold on - an inch or two into the carbon fibre tube had that force on it - and each layer of the CF cloth had been pulled apart abit and abit and abit more with each dive and ended up looking like the end of a frayed deck of playing cards.........once all those layers had been teased apart it just caved in coming away from the glued section on the titanium ring.
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Wouldn't they have spotted this though, surely they checked the joints constantly given it's the weakest point of the sub or is it not something you can check, with the outer layer of the CF looking fine while inside it's a mess ?
 
Combat squirrel said:
Why? Because the only thing holding out the carbon fibre tube against nearly 3 tons of force per square inch was.......the carbon fibre itself, which is a rubbish implosion resistant material.........I'd bet you £20 the glue on the inside of the titanium ring was trying to hold on - an inch or two into the carbon fibre tube had that force on it - and each layer of the CF cloth had been pulled apart abit and abit and abit more with each dive and ended up looking like the end of a frayed deck of playing cards.........once all those layers had been teased apart it just caved in coming away from the glued section on the titanium ring.
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No doubt in my mind, the weak link is the carbon fibre. There are always "difficulties" when two different materials meet. Different responses to pressure and temperature. It's inevitable that it's going to result in cracks. It's just a matter of time after that. Also, as you say, I would be extremely worried about de-lamination. Carbon fibre is strong, but it's not well suited to these sorts of changes in pressure. Also, although it's formed in a vacuum, I am not sure how effective it is at removing micro-bubbles, which would be dangerous in extremely high pressure. I mean, there are so many questions surrounding the use of carbon fibre.
Sure, it's possible the glass broke, but it's more likely something happened with the carbon fibre.
The only thing I find astounding is the news that they may have been on the way up when the disaster happened. I can't imagine any scenario where the crew were warned prior to an implosion.
 
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Minusorange said:
Wouldn't they have spotted this though, surely they checked the joints constantly given it's the weakest point of the sub or is it not something you can check, with the outer layer of the CF looking fine while inside it's a mess ?
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I can't find anything quickly but I seem to recall suggestion the owner refused to pay for xray, etc. inspections.

My brother in law used to work for companies like Rolls Royce doing xray and ultrasonic, etc. inspections for stress fractures within materials and so on on aircraft engines and aerospace in general.
 
Combat squirrel said:
Look, folks, lots of opinions going around this thread, I'm a tad surprised at the lack of basic engineering knowledge also for a bunch of old men on this forum ;)

Listen, it's really really really really really obvious where the failure point was - the right angle where the carbon fibre is bonded to the titanium ring (onto which the end cap semi sphere titanium hulls are bolted on/one of which is a door) - the carbon fibre was glued on the INSIDE of the ring (madness!)

It's so unbelievably obvious, its smack you in the face with a fish at 1500 miles per hour while your world implodes around you kind of obvious!

Titanium half sphere ----> titanium ring ------{Failed here} ---> Carbon fibre tube
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I think everything about the pressure vessel construction is under suspicion due to its unorthodox design, including all interfaces.

However the CF (composite) was not just bonded on the inside of the Titanium ring. the ring has a pocket in it, with all surfaces of that pocket glue’d and slid over the CF (composite) cylinder which had recesses machined or similar so it’s all flush when seated.
This means both inner/outer and end face of the CF (composite) tube are bonded.

The video of the end ring being bonded shows it clearly.
 
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