Today's mass shooting in the US

Rroff said:
I'm just a bit tired of the hysteria over "assault weapons" that is largely miss-informed. I'm all for effective gun control but I'm also relatively pro-firearms.
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It seems like a silly thing that NRA types get worked up about though:

"ackshually assault rifles are capable of fully automatic or burst fire, you mean assault weapons" etc.. it is a minor semantic point. The point still remains that civilians don't need to own a semi auto "full-bore" rifle, especially not the AR15 or AK47 civilian variants - military style weapons complete with high capacity magazines.

McGraw said:
I’m not sure how much you really know about guns.

What even is a high powered rifle?

Why would you choose a semi auto gun for a killing spree?
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Rifle, not gun!

A high powered rifle would generally mean "full-bore" as opposed to "small-bore" i.e. .22 target rifles. Generally small bore rifles are just used for shooting competition and at short ranges.
 
Rroff said:
Intermediate rifle caliber and usually the choice of those who've watched too many movies/games and fancy themselves as a bit of an "operative". They actually are quite a way down the list in terms of effective firearms for those kind of shootings - not that I'm going to elaborate on what is better...
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Somebody keep an eye on this guy... :P
 
dowie said:
"ackshually assault rifles are capable of fully automatic or burst fire, you mean assault weapons" etc.. it is a minor semantic point. The point still remains that civilians don't need to own a semi auto "full-bore" rifle, especially not the AR15 or AK47 civilian variants - military style weapons complete with high capacity magazines.
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For instance with that hysteria often the focus is on banning specific looking weapons while weapons equally effective get overlooked or as a blanket to ban all firearms, etc.

Civilians don't need to own a lot of things there needs to be some care in how far we let a tiny number of mad people dictate the rules of society.
 
The thing I find puzzling is why the 246th mass shooting was reported and not the first 245, I find what the news decides to report on a bit of a mystery.
I do wonder how widely they are reported in America?
 
Dalandius said:
The thing I find puzzling is why the 246th mass shooting was reported and not the first 245, I find what the news decides to report on a bit of a mystery.
I do wonder how widely they are reported in America?
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The news has been reported on a lot of the others, it's just that it takes a particularly bad one for it to be reported as headline news over here, which gives an idea of how common they are that it has to be "particularly bad" for a mass shooting in the US to make international news:(

In the US most of the "smaller" ones probably get a quick mention on the national news, they're so common that basically it's not even considered major news unless there are dozens of casualties or a bunch of kids get murdered.
 
dowie said:
It seems like a silly thing that NRA types get worked up about though:

"ackshually assault rifles are capable of fully automatic or burst fire, you mean assault weapons" etc.. it is a minor semantic point. The point still remains that civilians don't need to own a semi auto "full-bore" rifle, especially not the AR15 or AK47 civilian variants - military style weapons complete with high capacity magazines.



Rifle, not gun!

A high powered rifle would generally mean "full-bore" as opposed to "small-bore" i.e. .22 target rifles. Generally small bore rifles are just used for shooting competition and at short ranges.
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A rifle is a gun.
 
Rroff said:
Intermediate rifle caliber and usually the choice of those who've watched too many movies/games and fancy themselves as a bit of an "operative". They actually are quite a way down the list in terms of effective firearms for those kind of shootings - not that I'm going to elaborate on what is better...
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considering intermediate caliber rifles (ie 5.56/7.62*39/5.45*39 etc) are the choice of most armies around the world when it comes to the task of dispatching their fellow man to an early grave i'm curious as to how they aren't an effective choice for a civilian who's dastardly plans involve doing the same?

or maybe i'm confusing the point you're trying to make here.
 
adolf hamster said:
considering intermediate caliber rifles (ie 5.56/7.62*39/5.45*39 etc) are the choice of most armies around the world when it comes to the task of dispatching their fellow man to an early grave i'm curious as to how they aren't an effective choice for a civilian who's dastardly plans involve doing the same?

or maybe i'm confusing the point you're trying to make here.
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I'm confused as to the point he was trying to make, which was seemingly just to go "lol you don't really know about guns, you've just played a lot of video games and think you do", despite everyone having access to the internet and being able to research any topic in as much exhaustive detail as they would like - which is something I'm sad enough to frequently do on topics that interest me
 
Werewolf said:
In the US most of the "smaller" ones probably get a quick mention on the national news, they're so common that basically it's not even considered major news unless there are dozens of casualties or a bunch of kids get murdered.
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I can back this up, earlier this year I saw mentioned on a U.S. forum, discussing gun control, something about a shooting in Binghamton, upstate New York.
I have a very good friend in NYC who attended SUNY Binghamton in the early to mid 80s.
I emailed her and said, “I read about the girl who was shot outside the Cave Bar club, Binghamton, did we ever go there when I was over, visiting you years ago?”
She said, “I don’t remember the club, so I don’t know if we ever went there, and shooting? what shooting?, first I’ve heard of it.”
 
Roar87 said:
I'm confused as to the point he was trying to make, which was seemingly just to go "lol you don't really know about guns, you've just played a lot of video games and think you do", despite everyone having access to the internet and being able to research any topic in as much exhaustive detail as they would like - which is something I'm sad enough to frequently do on topics that interest me
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I have a better skill than knowing about guns.

It's called google. When you learn to be good at that one you can find out anything you like.
 
Rroff said:
Civilians don't need to own a lot of things there needs to be some care in how far we let a tiny number of mad people dictate the rules of society.
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Unfortunately yes, the minority (literally 2 people) have ruined it for the majority in england, the amount of faff it takes for me to obtain a firearms license makes it not worth doing, ive no reason to own one and have no gun clubs near me, so my chances are slim.

Everytime I visit the states I shoot a selection of firearms, its fun. But im also glad the local cretins dont have access to these kind of weapons.
 
wolfie138 said:
makes you wonder why they chose it as a standard NATO round, eh?
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Because they are lighter and allow for more stability with a high rate of fire. When you've a lot of Soviets pouring over the horizons, you need to fire a lot of bullets accurately, power is not so much of a factor.

it's totally accurate to say they are not high powered. If you wanted maximum lethality, a .223 is probably not the first choice, but it has many other benefits which in a combat situation make it far better.
 
wolfie138 said:
makes you wonder why they chose it as a standard NATO round, eh?
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Thought standard NATO round is 5.56 or 7.62? The L85A2 the british forces used were definitely 5.56..

Isn't it only really America using the .223 in the M16?

Could be way wrong here to be fair, but that is what I can remember from back in the days :P
 
adolf hamster said:
considering intermediate caliber rifles (ie 5.56/7.62*39/5.45*39 etc) are the choice of most armies around the world when it comes to the task of dispatching their fellow man to an early grave i'm curious as to how they aren't an effective choice for a civilian who's dastardly plans involve doing the same?

or maybe i'm confusing the point you're trying to make here.
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IIRC 5.56 is partly because it's a common round so it makes logistics easier (different units, different countries and diffierent guns all using the same round makes things much simpler).

However there is also an aspect of in war you are as much about wounding an enemy so you tie up an additional 1-4 troops on the front line providing first aid or pulling the wounded to safety (as well as stretching their logistics in treating them behind the lines) as outright killing them.

In a mass shooting it often seems they want to simply kill as many as possible so larger caliber/higher velocity rounds that do more immediate damage are common:(
IIRC there are also rounds available for non military use that are effectively banned for the armed forces.
 
Roar87 said:
I'm confused as to the point he was trying to make, which was seemingly just to go "lol you don't really know about guns, you've just played a lot of video games and think you do", despite everyone having access to the internet and being able to research any topic in as much exhaustive detail as they would like - which is something I'm sad enough to frequently do on topics that interest me
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You seem to have confused two of my posts there. My comments about video games was about why certain firearms are selected to use in some of the high profile mass shootings.

adolf hamster said:
considering intermediate caliber rifles (ie 5.56/7.62*39/5.45*39 etc) are the choice of most armies around the world when it comes to the task of dispatching their fellow man to an early grave i'm curious as to how they aren't an effective choice for a civilian who's dastardly plans involve doing the same?

or maybe i'm confusing the point you're trying to make here.
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I don't really want to elaborate too much but if you are trying to kill a lot of civilians in what is usually a relatively enclosed space that is a different scenario to your typical battlefield environment. But the point wasn't that these weapons are ineffective.
 
Werewolf said:
IIRC 5.56 is partly because it's a common round so it makes logistics easier (different units, different countries and diffierent guns all using the same round makes things much simpler).

However there is also an aspect of in war you are as much about wounding an enemy so you tie up an additional 1-4 troops on the front line providing first aid or pulling the wounded to safety (as well as stretching their logistics in treating them behind the lines) as outright killing them.

In a mass shooting it often seems they want to simply kill as many as possible so larger caliber/higher velocity rounds that do more immediate damage are common:(
IIRC there are also rounds available for non military use that are effectively banned for the armed forces.
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Really don't get how some random person can get a hold of 50. caliber armor piercing incendiary rounds... like actually what? Thankfully it's rather difficult to use in the sort of situations most of these shootings occur in.
 
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