Today's mass shooting in the US

potatolord said:
Having a distressed "Mr Jones" blazing away with a handgun within a school is unlikely to help.
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Not according to American logic! The good guy with a gun trope etc Moar guns is always what is needed!1!11!

Hell, No.'s 4,5,6 & 8 of the Fox News "practical solutions" is all about putting loads more guns in the Schools, from arming all the staff and administrators to train the students themselves....though it does make me wonder, train them to....what?
 
Trump supporters are tearing each other apart as they argue about whether or not the latest shooting was a government operation orchestrated by federal agents.

They're also arguing over whether or not the shooter was an illegal immigrant (he wasn't), trans (he wasn't), and unable to afford the firearms used in the shooting (he wasn't).

The kid was local, a genuine American citizen, a pupil at the school, worked a job at Wendy's (which is how he saved up for the firearms), had no criminal background, and purchased his firearms legally as soon as he turned 18.
 
potatolord said:
The police always control entry to a crime scene, especially when a crime is in progress.

Having a distressed "Mr Jones" blazing away with a handgun within a school is unlikely to help.
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I'm sure more details will come out, but it does sound like at that point there were no police inside the building. While the shooter was still shooting. Honestly I think I'd rather have a distressed Mr Jones hunting down the gunman over no one, sure he might not be very effective but might have some chance of preventing the shooter from killing more kids.

The story about some police officer challenging the guy outside but then just letting him pass by is particularly concerning. A situation like that isn't the right time to 'wait for backup' or whatever they were doing. Every minute wasted put more lives at risk.

I'm sure more details will come out over time though.
 
Raikiri said:
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Hardly anything?
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You have to cherry pick though, Mitch McConnel has been in office since 1985 and is 80 years old, that money is over his entire career. The NRA isn't some vastly funded organisation swaying opinion anymore, there simply isn't public support for mass gun control laws
 
Sankari said:
To be fair, a .22 rifle is a very lightweight firearm, the sort you'd use for killing rabbits rather than humans. But it's still absurd that he can buy it at 13.
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.22 might be a small bullet and a bolt action rifle like that isn't what a mass shooter would really want, but it can still kill humans just fine. Each bullet wound in a certain location will do less damage than something with more stopping power, but if you get hit in the wrong place then it's still lethal.
 
GreatAuk said:
I'm sure more details will come out, but it does sound like at that point there were no police inside the building. While the shooter was still shooting. Honestly I think I'd rather have a distressed Mr Jones hunting down the gunman over no one, sure he might not be very effective but might have some chance of preventing the shooter from killing more kids.

The story about some police officer challenging the guy outside but then just letting him pass by is particularly concerning. A situation like that isn't the right time to 'wait for backup' or whatever they were doing. Every minute wasted put more lives at risk.

I'm sure more details will come out over time though.
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I don't see a full on gunfight between two amateurs, within a school, as ideal. If the police let civilians into sieges, we'd almost certainly end up with more deaths, not less.

I didn't know the police hadn't entered the site at that point. How long after the incident start is this?

.
 
GreatAuk said:
.22 might be a small bullet and a bolt action rifle like that isn't what a mass shooter would really want, but it can still kill humans just fine. Each bullet wound in a certain location will do less damage than something with more stopping power, but if you get hit in the wrong place then it's still lethal.
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For sure, it's still a lethal weapon. It just won't give you a satisfying mass murder experience unless you're an excellent shot and can snipe from a concealed location.
 
GreatAuk said:
The story about some police officer challenging the guy outside but then just letting him pass by is particularly concerning.
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Also not true. The cop challenged Ramos, exchanged fire, and was wounded in the process. Two more officers also exchanged fire with him, and one of them was wounded.

Ramos reached the classroom, locked the door (which was steel, according to reports) and began shooting his victims. When the cops arrived at the room and found themselves unable to enter, they focused on evacuating kids and teachers from the rest of the school instead, which they did by breaking windows around the school.

Ramos was eventually shot and killed after the cops gained access using a key from the principal.
 
Roar87 said:
You have to cherry pick though, Mitch McConnel has been in office since 1985 and is 80 years old, that money is over his entire career. The NRA isn't some vastly funded organisation swaying opinion anymore, there simply isn't public support for mass gun control laws
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But there is major public support for gun control measures, a majority of people want it, but no Republican will commit career suicide by backing it so there's an impasse in the Senate and House. As there has been for many years.
 
potatolord said:
I don't see a full on gunfight between two amateurs, within a school, as ideal. If the police let civilians into sieges, we'd almost certainly end up with more deaths, not less.

I didn't know the police hadn't entered the site at that point. How long after the incident start is this?

.
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Tbf I don't know when that footage was taken.
I think there's a different video from over the road which was taken very soon after it started though. Timeline seems confused, but some onlookers definitely did not seem to think the police were doing much early on when they could just see them waiting outside.
apnews.com

Gunman's final 90 minutes fuel questions about police delays

Texas authorities say the gunman who massacred 21 people at an elementary school was in the building for over an hour before he was killed by law enforcement officers.
apnews.com apnews.com
 
Sankari said:
Also not true. The cop challenged Ramos, exchanged fire, and was wounded in the process. Two more officers also exchanged fire with him, and one of them was wounded.

Ramos reached the classroom, locked the door (which was steel, according to reports) and began shooting his victims. When the cops arrived at the room and found themselves unable to enter, they focused on evacuating kids and teachers from the rest of the school instead, which they did by breaking windows around the school.

Ramos was eventually shot and killed after the cops gained access using a key from the principal.
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It sounds like a lot of this is actually still unconfirmed atm - seen some articles say it's not confirmed whether they're was actually a gunfight with the school guard, and whether one or both of that pair of officers were injured (eg the AP article actually said both were injured).
 
MissChief said:
But there is major public support for gun control measures, a majority of people want it, but no Republican will commit career suicide by backing it so there's an impasse in the Senate and House. As there has been for many years.
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Why would it be career suicide if it has major public support? Wouldn't that support also be reflected in their votes? This makes no sense, either it has support in which case people will still vote for them, or it doesn't and they won't
 
Roar87 said:
Why would it be career suicide if it has major public support? Wouldn't that support also be reflected in their votes? This makes no sense, either it has support in which case people will still vote for them, or it doesn't and they won't
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Or...and this doesn't take a lot of thinking about, people vote for candidates based on more than one issue......? :rolleyes:

Combined with the fact US politics is even more polarised than ours, then a certain contingent of voters would vote for 'their side' no matter what the candidate stood for.

Plus due to the way especially the Senate vote is done, 2 senators per state regardless of size, it's not a 1-1 comparison of how many votes it takes urban areas to vote in their candidate to rural areas eg : back in 2018

Democrats led Republicans by more than 12 million votes in Senate races, and yet still suffered losses on the night and failed to win a majority of seats in the chamber. Because each state gets two senators, irrespective of population, states such as Wyoming have as many seats as California, despite the latter having more than 60 times the population. The smaller states also tend to be the more rural, and rural areas traditionally favor Republicans..
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So yes, you can still have a majority of the population of the USA wanting tighter gun controls and that not be reflected in the amount of Republicans in the House or Senate. No wonder you find life so confusing with your simplistic way of looking at things! lol
 
Roar87 said:
Why would it be career suicide if it has major public support? Wouldn't that support also be reflected in their votes? This makes no sense, either it has support in which case people will still vote for them, or it doesn't and they won't
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Because while the majority of Americans want gun control most Republican states, often with far lower population as mentioned by @Freakbro don’t. And Republican politicians rely on that support to get elected every four years.
 
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