Today's mass shooting in the US

Werewolf said:
Because chain link fences do absolutely nothing to stop bullets, which means that you've still got a major security flaw in regards to the safety of the children when they're say during break times, chain link fences are also quite easy to get through with something that costs a lot less than a gun, and are less resistant to things like just driving through them.

Once you start to go down the route of "well we can harden the schools..." rather than "try and reduce the causes" you rapidly end up in a situation where what you are looking at is much more of a prison or a fortress than a school as you need to consider not just how many doors there are, but the entire perimeter.

Given the construction of many US schools the thing about "locking the classroom doors" is, and always has been a bit of a nonsense, many schools don't have internal walls that are enough to stop bullets, the doors aren't designed to do it either and many built in times when the NRA didn't run the Republican party were built with things like windows into the corridors so that you got more natural light and that visitors/staff could see into internal rooms without opening the doors.
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Yeah we're trying to make them harder targets so someone can't stroll in the front door with a gun, not impossible targets, if they're harder targets then it limits the opportunity
 
Roar87 said:
Yeah we're trying to make them harder targets so someone can't stroll in the front door with a gun, not impossible targets, if they're harder targets then it limits the opportunity
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Removing guns from society does that without turning schools in to fortresses...
 
MissChief said:
There is a majority support for it across the US. Republican Congress members and Senate members, many of whom receive campaign funding from the NRA and gun manufacturers, continually block legislation to make changes.
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I could just as easily say: There is insufficient support for it across the US. Democrat Congress members and Senate members, many of whom receive campaign funding from the anti-gun groups, continually fail to gain enough support to make changes.

The U.S. is a constitutional republic, not everything needs to be done at the federal level, state laws exist and the Second Amendment could be completely removed if enough states want it gone, but they don't.
 
Dis86 said:
Removing guns from society does that without turning schools in to fortresses...
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There is no support for this, you're suggesting something that isn't a possibility. You may as well tell me the solution to Russia invading Ukraine would be for Putin to dismantle their armed forces and hand himself in for a war crimes trial.
 
Roar87 said:
There is no support for this, you're suggesting something that isn't a possibility. You may as well tell me the solution to Russia invading Ukraine would be for Putin to dismantle their armed forces and hand himself in for a war crimes trial.
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You mean to tell me that no Americans want guns to be removed from society?
 
Roar87 said:
Yeah we're trying to make them harder targets so someone can't stroll in the front door with a gun, not impossible targets, if they're harder targets then it limits the opportunity
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What is to stop someone walking up to that fence when the kids are in the school yard at lunch time and opening up? You still have a lot of dead kids. You lower the chances of this happening by having sensible gun laws. Not letting 18 year olds buy them, make it 21. Mandatory background checks and mental health checks to get a licence. Make it as difficult as possible for these people to get guns.
 
Longbow said:
I could just as easily say: There is insufficient support for it across the US. Democrat Congress members and Senate members, many of whom receive campaign funding from the anti-gun groups, continually fail to gain enough support to make changes.

The U.S. is a constitutional republic, not everything needs to be done at the federal level, state laws exist and the Second Amendment could be completely removed if enough states want it gone, but they don't.
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Give it some time.

The first generation of school survivors* will start to be getting old enough to run for higher offices in the next few years...

The US has spent the last 20+ years with a lot of it's politicians deciding that the murder of hundreds of school children is worth while, and traumatising millions more** with regular shooting drills is nothing unusual, whilst those children in question are are growing up with the ability to see that what they're forced to go through is something that is unique in the western world to the US, and only seen to lesser degrees in third world countries without functioning governments usually where the extremists don't want children to be educated.
Someone I saw a few weeks back made a very good point, most adults in the US especially the current politicians have no idea of what it's actually like in the schools, or the sort of things that preteens are being expected to decide on, let alone the teachers, things like which child is going to get to go in the supply closet, which one is going to be designated to run over and put stuff over the windows to prevent a shooter seeing in, but also making themselves a prime target. Apparently the kids don't tell their parents even about things like false alarms a lot of the time (and the schools don't necessarily inform the parents), as it's "normal".

It's also worth noting, as others have said the majority of US people when polled, including gun owners are supportive of at least some basic "gun control" laws it's the Fox news viewers and the borderline nuts who can't distinguish between say stopping someone from buying a gun on a whim and using it to kill people (especially those who are known to be high risk, such as people with restraining orders for domestic violence) and taking all of everyone's guns away...
I mean they go on about "yeah well what about illegal guns", but then don't want the government to know where those illegal guns are coming from or have any ability to reduce how many illegal guns there are (by for example having a registry of reported lost and stolen weapons, or requiring that you take more care of where you leave your guns than your TV remote).



*I remember when "surviving high school" was sort of a joke, now it's a real thing in the US.

**There has from memory been a marked increase in the number of children and young adults who are being diagnosed with PTSD type issues, because for the last 20 years they're ended up being taught that basically any loud bang in a school could be a shooter, and trained to hide under their desks both in drills and in scares.
 
Roar87 said:
There are a lot of people in positions of power where they're capable of killing a bunch of people if they just decided to every day, that's the point
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That isn't a point. They are paid to protect the public and deal with criminality. In many counties they are armed. How is that a comparison to some loon who goes out with 3 hand guns and a load of mags strapped to his body. He isn't being employed to do that and normal people don't do that to pop to the shops.
 
Colonel_Klinck said:
That isn't a point. They are paid to protect the public and deal with criminality. In many counties they are armed. How is that a comparison to some loon who goes out with 3 hand guns and a load of mags strapped to his body. He isn't being employed to do that and normal people don't do that to pop to the shops.
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You clearly haven't read their posts in the Kyle Rittenhouse thread :D:p
 
There has to be a number that will bring about change. Is it 500 kids murdered a year? 1000? 10000? 100000? How many children are these people willing to sacrifice before they will allow changes to be made. How many that will be traumatised for life, that might well go on to become drug addicts/alcoholics and fall into the justice system because of what they've witnessed? They are basically saying **** those kids, my rights to own weapons of war are more important than their rights to live.
 
Colonel_Klinck said:
That isn't a point. They are paid to protect the public and deal with criminality. In many counties they are armed. How is that a comparison to some loon who goes out with 3 hand guns and a load of mags strapped to his body. He isn't being employed to do that and normal people don't do that to pop to the shops.
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He's legally allowed to carry guns, he didn't shoot anyone, how is it even relevant to this thread of a mentally ill teenager murdering a bunch of kids? You don't even want to ban pistols and the guy is over 21?
 
Werewolf said:
Give it some time.

The first generation of school survivors* will start to be getting old enough to run for higher offices in the next few years...

The US has spent the last 20+ years with a lot of it's politicians deciding that the murder of hundreds of school children is worth while, and traumatising millions more** with regular shooting drills is nothing unusual, whilst those children in question are are growing up with the ability to see that what they're forced to go through is something that is unique in the western world to the US, and only seen to lesser degrees in third world countries without functioning governments usually where the extremists don't want children to be educated.
Someone I saw a few weeks back made a very good point, most adults in the US especially the current politicians have no idea of what it's actually like in the schools, or the sort of things that preteens are being expected to decide on, let alone the teachers, things like which child is going to get to go in the supply closet, which one is going to be designated to run over and put stuff over the windows to prevent a shooter seeing in, but also making themselves a prime target. Apparently the kids don't tell their parents even about things like false alarms a lot of the time (and the schools don't necessarily inform the parents), as it's "normal".

It's also worth noting, as others have said the majority of US people when polled, including gun owners are supportive of at least some basic "gun control" laws it's the Fox news viewers and the borderline nuts who can't distinguish between say stopping someone from buying a gun on a whim and using it to kill people (especially those who are known to be high risk, such as people with restraining orders for domestic violence) and taking all of everyone's guns away...
I mean they go on about "yeah well what about illegal guns", but then don't want the government to know where those illegal guns are coming from or have any ability to reduce how many illegal guns there are (by for example having a registry of reported lost and stolen weapons, or requiring that you take more care of where you leave your guns than your TV remote).



*I remember when "surviving high school" was sort of a joke, now it's a real thing in the US.

**There has from memory been a marked increase in the number of children and young adults who are being diagnosed with PTSD type issues, because for the last 20 years they're ended up being taught that basically any loud bang in a school could be a shooter, and trained to hide under their desks both in drills and in scares.
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I would hate for my child to have to go to school and have to think that there's a real chance of being shot, or a real enough threat that impressionable minds get anti shooter drills and measures imprinted from being a toddler.
 
Werewolf said:
Give it some time.

The first generation of school survivors* will start to be getting old enough to run for higher offices in the next few years...

The US has spent the last 20+ years with a lot of it's politicians deciding that the murder of hundreds of school children is worth while, and traumatising millions more** with regular shooting drills is nothing unusual, whilst those children in question are are growing up with the ability to see that what they're forced to go through is something that is unique in the western world to the US, and only seen to lesser degrees in third world countries without functioning governments usually where the extremists don't want children to be educated.
Someone I saw a few weeks back made a very good point, most adults in the US especially the current politicians have no idea of what it's actually like in the schools, or the sort of things that preteens are being expected to decide on, let alone the teachers, things like which child is going to get to go in the supply closet, which one is going to be designated to run over and put stuff over the windows to prevent a shooter seeing in, but also making themselves a prime target. Apparently the kids don't tell their parents even about things like false alarms a lot of the time (and the schools don't necessarily inform the parents), as it's "normal".

It's also worth noting, as others have said the majority of US people when polled, including gun owners are supportive of at least some basic "gun control" laws it's the Fox news viewers and the borderline nuts who can't distinguish between say stopping someone from buying a gun on a whim and using it to kill people (especially those who are known to be high risk, such as people with restraining orders for domestic violence) and taking all of everyone's guns away...
I mean they go on about "yeah well what about illegal guns", but then don't want the government to know where those illegal guns are coming from or have any ability to reduce how many illegal guns there are (by for example having a registry of reported lost and stolen weapons, or requiring that you take more care of where you leave your guns than your TV remote).



*I remember when "surviving high school" was sort of a joke, now it's a real thing in the US.

**There has from memory been a marked increase in the number of children and young adults who are being diagnosed with PTSD type issues, because for the last 20 years they're ended up being taught that basically any loud bang in a school could be a shooter, and trained to hide under their desks both in drills and in scares.
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A minority of people who survived a school shooting tragedy aren't going to sway the huge number of people absolutely committed to their constitutional rights. It's cultural, it isn't going away any time soon, if ever.
 
I wonder if AI image recognition systems could be of use for detecting people with guns approaching a school and setting off alarms. It seems like an easy thing for the image recognition to do.

It is a very sad problem and in my view US gun laws need to be tightened considerably. There is no way the public should be able to get such powerful weapons.
 
RoboCod said:
A minority of people who survived a school shooting tragedy aren't going to sway the huge number of people absolutely committed to their constitutional rights. It's cultural, it isn't going away any time soon, if ever.
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There's been a general move towards gun control measures that has only increased over the years. More and more states are turning blue or are on the verge of it. It's going to happen sooner or later.
 
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