Today's mass shooting in the US

[Colonel_Klinck]

Not very many in the grand scheme of things.

Given the shooter in the latest incident skipped their 1st choice school due to security do you think teachers/schools should have armed security or be allowed to conceal carry firearms?

In mass shootings its not an insignificant number. Only by placing it in the whole number of gun deaths does it seem insignificant.

Only in America would arming everyone in a school be the answer. Better mental healthcare, sensible gun laws that include prohibiting anyone with mental health issues from owning guns would seem a more sensible way to go.

 

[Chuk_Chuk]

Given the shooter in the latest incident skipped their 1st choice school due to security do you think teachers/schools should have armed security or be allowed to conceal carry firearms?

That’s a detail that I hadn’t heard till now. Interestingly it does show that the solution works. Probably a good short term solution while political pundits throw the death of kids about for browny points.

 

[C Kent]

In mass shootings its not an insignificant number. Only by placing it in the whole number of gun deaths does it seem insignificant.

It's already been quoted multiple times above, but the vast majority of mass shootings are handguns, and not AR style weapons. So even in the mass shooting subset yes it is a small %.

Only in America would arming everyone in a school be the answer. Better mental healthcare, sensible gun laws that include prohibiting anyone with mental health issues from owning guns would seem a more sensible way to go.

Well obviously better mental healthcare would be ideal, but that still wouldn't stop the overwhelming majority of homicides in the US seeing as they are committed with illegally obtained firearms.

 

[C Kent]

That’s a detail that I hadn’t heard till now. Interestingly it does show that the solution works. Probably a good short term solution while political pundits throw the death of kids about for browny points.

Yes it clearly works as a deterrent, I think it's been linked in this thread previously but the FBi estimates anywhere between 300,000 to something like 1.5 million violent crimes are prevented p.a due to assailants thinking twice if they believe potential victims are armed.

 

[physichull]

just seen the bodycam footage of the Police who killed her, wow she messed with the wrong dude

Also, how incredibly brave! They had assault rifles of their own but most just seemed like ordinary police with just sidearms and not a tremendous amount of protective equipment. Incredibly brave going door to door in the classrooms though.

 

[C Kent]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1640806933069451264

 

[Colonel_Klinck]

It's already been quoted multiple times above, but the vast majority of mass shootings are handguns, and not AR style weapons. So even in the mass shooting subset yes it is a small %.

If you include the mass mass shootings, 10+ deaths. Its far easier to kill people with an AR15 style rifle than it is a handgun.

Well obviously better mental healthcare would be ideal, but that still wouldn't stop the overwhelming majority of homicides in the US seeing as they are committed with illegally obtained firearms.

This one wasn't. She bought the guns legally.

I really dislike the meh attitude that because not all mass shooting are committed with weapons of war style guns that means nothing should be done about those guns. How many lives a year, a decade does it have to save before its worth doing something? I thought life was cheap in Zambia when I lived there but this attitude is little different tbh.

 

[Colonel_Klinck]

Also, how incredibly brave! They had assault rifles of their own but most just seemed like ordinary police with just sidearms and not a tremendous amount of protective equipment. Incredibly brave going door to door in the classrooms though.

Yeah at least these cops actually did their jobs unlike at the Robb Elementary School shooting.

 

[Rroff]

Also, how incredibly brave! They had assault rifles of their own but most just seemed like ordinary police with just sidearms and not a tremendous amount of protective equipment. Incredibly brave going door to door in the classrooms though.

Something I find interesting watching law enforcement body cam in the US, probably similar in other countries as well but I think more extreme in the US. They used to be very uncoordinated, these days you have a smattering of officers with very high situational awareness and coordination skills but struggle with getting the message through, and must find it frustrating, with too many others who just don't listen/chaos as to who is in command, etc.

Same with the ASP guys when dealing with local PD at a scene - some exceptions aside they really know what they are doing but they really have to be pushy to make sure everyone is following safe procedures, etc.

 

[Rroff]

I really dislike the meh attitude that because not all mass shooting are committed with weapons of war style guns that means nothing should be done about those guns. How many lives a year, a decade does it have to save before its worth doing something? I thought life was cheap in Zambia when I lived there but this attitude is little different tbh.

It is almost a red herring at the end of the day though - there are far more identically lethal or more lethal for this kind of use firearms on sale in the US which aren't "assault style".

Although I'm not personally a fan of laws based on a strictly need/use justification one of the bigger differences in the UK is that these kind of weapons can, some exceptions aside, only be owned in straight pull/bolt action configuration and there is very little need for any civilian shooting for recreational use or even home defence to have semi-automatic let alone full automatic capability.

 

[C Kent]

If you include the mass mass shootings, 10+ deaths. Its far easier to kill people with an AR15 style rifle than it is a handgun.

And yet more than half of the recorded mass shootings with 10 or more fatalities involved handguns.

This one wasn't. She bought the guns legally.

Correct, she shouldn't have been able to either. Still doesn't take away from the fact that the overwhelming majority of homicides are committed with illegally obtained firearms.

I really dislike the meh attitude that because not all mass shooting are committed with weapons of war style guns that means nothing should be done about those guns. How many lives a year, a decade does it have to save before its worth doing something? I thought life was cheap in Zambia when I lived there but this attitude is little different tbh.

More lives are saved per year by criminals thinking potential victims are armed.

 

[Caracus2k]

So zero lives will be saved by sensible ban on AR15 style weapons.

If you try to 'ban' 'AR15' style weapons in as much as ban their possession and the transfer of existing examples I would be willing to put a lot of money on the amount of people being killed by fireamrs going up not down for quite a few years

If you include the mass mass shootings, 10+ deaths. Its far easier to kill people with an AR15 style rifle than it is a handgun.

So this incident would not be a 'mass' shooting because you now want to game the figures to only include to be a very small amount of not only the total shooting incidents where there are multiple casualties but a very small amount of the overall people killed in all shooting incidents.

I really dislike the meh attitude that because not all mass shooting are committed with weapons of war style guns that means nothing should be done about those guns.

You own previous link shows why people have the attitude they do...

A 2019 DiMaggio et al. study looked at mass shooting data for 1981 to 2017 and found that mass-shooting fatalities were 70% less likely to occur during the 1994 to 2004 federal ban period, and that the ban was associated with a 0.1% reduction in total firearm homicide fatalities due to the reduction in mass-shootings' contribution to total homicides.[6]

A 0.1% reduction in total firearm homicide fatalities... you want to to risk pushing the US further towards civil war or at least have quite a few more Waco's worth of deaths for that sort of supposed gain?

I pretty sure some less draconian changes to the law could yield far better results.

 

[kakarott]

Without a clear motive that would be hysterical.

If you're shooting up kids, you're a terrorist. But since it's a white person, will be probably me mental illness.

 

[XeNoN89]

If you're shooting up kids, you're a terrorist. But since it's a white person, will be probably me mental illness.

It's only terrorism if it's done due to political, religious or other ideology. Random nutcase shooting up a school doesn't fall under that

 

[C Kent]

It's only terrorism if it's done due to political, religious or other ideology. Random nutcase shooting up a school doesn't fall under that

Yes, I'm sure the manifesto that's been found will have nothing to do with any ideology whatsoever, yes siree bob, nothing to see here.

 

[Roar87]

The Police who killed the shooter were incredible

 

[omnomnom]

"Its Tennessee, NRA Baby" a woman was quoted on the scene after the interviewer asked if anything would change RE gun laws. On the damn scene and that still comes out.

It's only terrorism if it's done due to political, religious or other ideology. Random nutcase shooting up a school doesn't fall under that

I havent seen any manifesto but i imagine it ticks the ideology box tbh.

 

[XeNoN89]

Yes, I'm sure the manifesto that's been found will have nothing to do with any ideology whatsoever, yes siree bob, nothing to see here.

Yes it seems likely in this case, which will be confirmed once details of the manifesto are released

 

[ttaskmaster]

Or how about we treat guns like alcohol and make a minimum age of 21 and also ban you from walking around with guns and also allow states to ban it at state level. Alcohol in the US is far more regulated than guns are that's part of the issue

They tried something similar, in that certain states enacted vastly stricter gun laws. Some saw a reduction in gun crime, but others saw an increase as criminals simply hopped the state lines to acquire their shooters, before hopping back and having at it... ISTR Detroit having such a problem (although that was likely more county than state law) and perhaps Illinois?

 

[mattx4]

They tried something similar, in that certain states enacted vastly stricter gun laws. Some saw a reduction in gun crime, but others saw an increase as criminals simply hopped the state lines to acquire their shooters, before hopping back and having at it... ISTR Detroit having such a problem (although that was likely more county than state law) and perhaps Illinois?

Well gun law varies state by state but there is correlation generally the states with the stricter laws have less deaths

Gun Safety Policies Save Lives

Compares gun policy across 50 states. In states where elected officials have taken action to pass gun laws, fewer people die by gun violence.

everytownresearch.org

As you pointed out there are some exceptions like Illinois mostly due to Chicago gang violence and the ease of cross boarder purchases.

The problem now is the supreme court is trying to undo the law in stricter states.