Today's mass shooting in the US

Hagar · 29 Mar 2023 at 14:55

The constitution states that most citizens can bear exotic arms. The same constitution restricts the rights of a president to do anything much about it except to tinker around the edges.

Aren't we glad that we don't have a written constitution, or at least one put down in the 18th century.

C Kent · 29 Mar 2023 at 14:55

ebilcake said:
Making the school a gun free zone didn't exactly protect anyone did it...

If I was a teacher I'd want to be able to protect myself. Rather than be a sitting duck for whatever lunatic turns up with the gun.

Give the teachers access to guns, secure safe only they have access to, at least if they hear gun fire they can prepare rather wait to get shot.

Ideally a ban would be the best option but that's not going to happen.

Unfortunately, the 'just ban guns brah' brigade won't listen to any common sense approach, at the very least there should be metal detectors and/or security. No different to UK schools having metal detectors (on advice from the police) to pick up anyone carrying anything following the surge in knife crime a few years back.

throwaway4372 · 29 Mar 2023 at 14:57

imagine thinking common sense isn't banning guns

C Kent · 29 Mar 2023 at 14:58

throwaway4372 said:
imagine thinking common sense isn't banning guns

Imagine being so simple as to think banning guns would have any meaningful impact on homicides in the US

ebilcake · 29 Mar 2023 at 14:59

potatolord said:
Having unqualified civilians blazing away in a school is a great idea!

Then offer them training or no gun, not pretending this is a solution but at least it's some kind deterrent against cowards that may target them because it's a gun free zone.

Ayahuasca · 29 Mar 2023 at 15:02

ebilcake said:
Making the school a gun free zone didn't exactly protect anyone did it...

If I was a teacher I'd want to be able to protect myself. Rather than be a sitting duck for whatever lunatic turns up with the gun.

Give the teachers access to guns, secure safe only they have access to, at least if they hear gun fire they can prepare rather wait to get shot.

Ideally a ban would be the best option but that's not going to happen.

TLDR, let's give more people access to more guns?

Actually, I could run with that, sounds like Muricah.

Although I'm sure this kind of thing has been suggested before and from surveys, the overwhelming response was that they wouldn't want a firearm in the classroom or building?

Werewolf · 29 Mar 2023 at 15:08

C Kent said:
Unfortunately, the 'just ban guns brah' brigade won't listen to any common sense approach, at the very least there should be metal detectors and/or security. No different to UK schools having metal detectors (on advice from the police) to pick up anyone carrying anything following the surge in knife crime a few years back.

And what happens when the metal detector goes off, or the person manning the metal detector gets shot as the first target? so you put in a nice armoured kiosk and have a guy in there with his gun out to shoot the person that shoots the newbie minimum wage guy who gets the job of checking if the alarm has gone off because you've got a gun, or forgotten to take the change out of your pocket.
Many schools do already have security such as "school resource officers" who have their own set of problems, including it being depressingly common for them to abuse their position (including sexual assault, physical assault and blackmailing for things like nude photos).

Ultimately you end up with a situation where you don't have schools, you have supermax prisons with fewer books (if in Florida).

The school had security doors, it turns out having any glass in them makes them vulnerable to being shot out.

ebilcake · 29 Mar 2023 at 15:15

C Kent said:
Unfortunately, the 'just ban guns brah' brigade won't listen to any common sense approach, at the very least there should be metal detectors and/or security. No different to UK schools having metal detectors (on advice from the police) to pick up anyone carrying anything following the surge in knife crime a few years back.

The way I see it, give teachers basic training and access to a weapon or give them armed security.

Not so sure about metal detectors for guns, it's not like the shooters will turn up and voluntarily go through them, especially if they're determined to do harm or get themselves killed.

Even if there was a ban, how long realistically would it take for guns to be out of common circulation in the US? Probably decades.

C Kent · 29 Mar 2023 at 15:15

Werewolf said:
And what happens when the metal detector goes off, or the person manning the metal detector gets shot as the first target? so you put in a nice armoured kiosk and have a guy in there with his gun out to shoot the person that shoots the newbie minimum wage guy who gets the job of checking if the alarm has gone off because you've got a gun, or forgotten to take the change out of your pocket.

Ultimately you end up with a situation where you don't have schools, you have supermax prisons with fewer books (if in Florida).

The school had security doors, it turns out having any glass in them makes them vulnerable to being shot out.

Or alternatively, you have a situation where someone willing to go on a rampage doesn't go through with it, such as the most recent example where the school chosen was the 2nd choice as the shooter skipped their 1st target due to security at the school.

Werewolf said:
Many schools do already have security such as "school resource officers" who have their own set of problems, including it being depressingly common for them to abuse their position (including sexual assault, physical assault and blackmailing for things like nude photos).

Citation required pls

C Kent · 29 Mar 2023 at 15:17

ebilcake said:
The way I see it, give teachers basic training and access to a weapon or give them armed security.

Not so sure about metal detectors for guns, it's not like the shooters will turn up and voluntarily go through them, especially if they're determined to do harm or get themselves killed.

Even if there was a ban, how long realistically would it take for guns to out of common circulation in the US? Probably decades.

If previous bans elsewhere have shown anything at most you'll get around 1/5 of legal firearms taken out of circulation.

sidimmu · 29 Mar 2023 at 15:18

C Kent said:
If previous bans elsewhere have shown anything at most you'll get around 1/5 of legal firearms taken out of circulation.

citation required pls.

bjorkiii · 29 Mar 2023 at 15:18

Bullet proof teacher child modules ? Killer moose armed and packed? Each school room insulated with a 45 bible thick surrounding wall and statues of david with a laser gun that shoots from its sausage mm.

C Kent · 29 Mar 2023 at 15:28

sidimmu said:
citation required pls.

Will Australia in 96 suffice? around 700k weapons were taken back following the ban, there were 3.1 - 3.5 million (cant remember the exact figure) legal guns in the country prior to the mass shooting that preceded the ban.

imtoooldforthis · 29 Mar 2023 at 15:32

C Kent said:
Imagine being so simple as to think banning guns would have any meaningful impact on homicides in the US

I mean it probably would, it would just take a couple of decades or longer for it to have a sizeable impact.

C Kent · 29 Mar 2023 at 15:35

imtoooldforthis said:
I mean it probably would, it would just take a couple of decades or longer for it to have a sizeable impact.

Criminals aren't going to give up their weapons

mattx4 · 29 Mar 2023 at 15:38

C Kent said:
Criminals aren't going to give up their weapons

Should they just make it legal to carry a large knife in the UK after all they are everywhere and criminals aren't going to stop using them

C Kent · 29 Mar 2023 at 15:41

mattx4 said:
Should they just make it legal to carry a large knife in the UK after all they are everywhere and criminals aren't going to stop using them

Strange. Carrying a large knife is already illegal in the UK and yet knife crime is continually on the rise. Now I wonder why that is :confused:

its almost like criminals don't obey laws or something.

sidimmu · 29 Mar 2023 at 15:47

C Kent said:
Will Australia in 96 suffice? around 700k weapons were taken back following the ban, there were 3.1 - 3.5 million (cant remember the exact figure) legal guns in the country prior to the mass shooting that preceded the ban.

Formal report to confirm such examples, percentages etc would certainly back your point up.

C Kent · 29 Mar 2023 at 15:55

sidimmu said:
Formal report to confirm such examples, percentages etc would certainly back your point up.

my bad it was 3.2million, so a little over 1/5

the number of firearms reported in Australia in 2017 (3.6 million) is now higher than pre-Port Arthur levels, prior to the 1996 National Firearms Agreement (3.2 million firearms)
&
During the buyback program, Australians sold 640,000 prohibited firearms to the government, and voluntarily surrendered about 60,000 non-prohibited firearms. In all, more than 700,000 weapons were surrendered, according to a Library of Congress report on Australian gun policy.

any quick google will give you the buyback figure however.

VincentHanna · 29 Mar 2023 at 16:01

ebilcake said:
Then offer them training or no gun, not pretending this is a solution but at least it's some kind deterrent against cowards that may target them because it's a gun free zone.

Do you know how much teachers get paid? And you want them to all have armed training?