Exactly. The Sheriff not intervening highlights how utterly stupid and pointless arming teachers would be.
Today's mass shooting in the US
- Thread starter Rroff
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Exactly. The Sheriff not intervening highlights how utterly stupid and pointless arming teachers would be.
'Most' people, even in the heavily armed US haven't been in a gunfight full stop... And thoose that have tend to display a lot of self selection.
Without the full details being known of the incident my first response is to react with a high degree of sympathy for the officer first on scene who was likely only armed with a handgun which would render him at a significant disadvantage over an ar-15 type assault weapon wielding suspect. Had the officer gone charging in the headlines may well have been about the officers valiant but ultimately futile attempts to stop the killing ....
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Let's face it. The sole reason that Americans want to own assault rifles is the same reason that little boys want to dress up as cowboys. It's a bunch of grown men playing at soldiers with their big boom sticks.
I get that concealed carry makes them feel safe, or that they want to own a pistol for home defence. That's an understandable position. But the desire to own these assault rifles is a problem. They should be kept exclusively at gun clubs or at some sort of militia barracks that these gun nuts insist on forming.
"Muh second amendment, muh trained militia"
I get that concealed carry makes them feel safe, or that they want to own a pistol for home defence. That's an understandable position. But the desire to own these assault rifles is a problem. They should be kept exclusively at gun clubs or at some sort of militia barracks that these gun nuts insist on forming.
"Muh second amendment, muh trained militia"
Absolutely, the poor guy is going be the scapegoat for the entire debacle. I have nothing but sympathy for him, but i guess him getting shot and leaving behind a wife and kid is ok as its "his job" to die.
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My brother-in-law owns shotguns. He has held a license for them for years and was brought up around guns. His son will surely go on to own shotguns too. But these guns are kept in a secure strongbox that is bolted to the fabric of his house. Everything is kept under lock and key and he has to have his strongbox checked once a year.
In America people take no such precautions. They leave guns lying around their homes, under their pillows and in the cabinet draw. It's insane. Even suggesting that a gun owner keeps their guns under lock and key gets them in a twizz.
In America people take no such precautions. They leave guns lying around their homes, under their pillows and in the cabinet draw. It's insane. Even suggesting that a gun owner keeps their guns under lock and key gets them in a twizz.
To be fair I think it goes a little deeper that that in the US as part of their constitution which was a document almost explicitly written to allow for the populace to defend themselves from a potentially tyrannical goverment.
My thoughts as well . .
Having used automatic/ semi automatic rifles and handguns I can personally attest that a corollary from the saying...
'dont bring a knife to a gun fight'
Might as well be
'Don't bring a handgun to a gunfight with assault weapons'
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Arming teachers, Jesus Christ what a stupid idea.
Lets look at the reality of it shall we?
First you've got to get them to agree, which I'm guessing they won't, you know with them being teachers, not Navy SEALS. Then you've got to train them in safe handling of firearms.
Then you've got to train them for the type of situation they might find themselves in which will be Close Quarter Battles, you know the kind of operation that due to the skill level and training requirements needed, only special forces units carry out.
It's not just your bog-standard Close Quarter Battles they will be fighting in though, they are probably going to be taken by surprise, where there are kids panicking, and screaming, and running in all directions, not to mention the fact they are getting shot at, then they will be expected to kill the attacker before he/she kills any of the students and they themselves will be expected not accidentally hit & wound/kill any of the panicking students.
I remember watching a documentary on the Iranian Embassy Siege in London, they were interviewing one of the SAS guys, who was taking about the training they underwent for this kind of situation. He was saying the average police marksman fired about 200 rounds a year down at the range, whereas the SAS guys were going through about 4,000 rounds every morning, or something insane like that. This was done to get them confident to carry out hostage rescue/CQB type operations, are teachers expected to go through this? Are they bum, they'll shown which is the nice end and which is the naughty end of a gun, then they will be expected to kill an attacker before any students are hurt, and if they don't and students are killed then we all know the blame will be placed entirely on the teachers shoulders for failing to protect the children in their class rooms.
Lets look at the reality of it shall we?
First you've got to get them to agree, which I'm guessing they won't, you know with them being teachers, not Navy SEALS. Then you've got to train them in safe handling of firearms.
Then you've got to train them for the type of situation they might find themselves in which will be Close Quarter Battles, you know the kind of operation that due to the skill level and training requirements needed, only special forces units carry out.
It's not just your bog-standard Close Quarter Battles they will be fighting in though, they are probably going to be taken by surprise, where there are kids panicking, and screaming, and running in all directions, not to mention the fact they are getting shot at, then they will be expected to kill the attacker before he/she kills any of the students and they themselves will be expected not accidentally hit & wound/kill any of the panicking students.
I remember watching a documentary on the Iranian Embassy Siege in London, they were interviewing one of the SAS guys, who was taking about the training they underwent for this kind of situation. He was saying the average police marksman fired about 200 rounds a year down at the range, whereas the SAS guys were going through about 4,000 rounds every morning, or something insane like that. This was done to get them confident to carry out hostage rescue/CQB type operations, are teachers expected to go through this? Are they bum, they'll shown which is the nice end and which is the naughty end of a gun, then they will be expected to kill an attacker before any students are hurt, and if they don't and students are killed then we all know the blame will be placed entirely on the teachers shoulders for failing to protect the children in their class rooms.
when it comes to a single armed officer...well he is only human and probably has a family of his own
bottom line is..people dont want to get shot
soldiers are trained..its essentially brainwashing , to ignore the fact theres a good chance you will die or at least wounded
police receive training on how to use guns but hey never receive the training combat troops do to forget about yourself as an individual
teachers..well they will just be civilians with guns....why should it be a teachers job to engage potential killers..who the hell is going to become a teacher if thats part of your role..you are destroying the fabric of your society
if teachers have guns why shouldnt postmen..or anybody in a workplace where somebody might turn up with a gun...driving licence clerks, nurses...the whole premise of the idea is utter lunacy
bottom line is..people dont want to get shot
soldiers are trained..its essentially brainwashing , to ignore the fact theres a good chance you will die or at least wounded
police receive training on how to use guns but hey never receive the training combat troops do to forget about yourself as an individual
teachers..well they will just be civilians with guns....why should it be a teachers job to engage potential killers..who the hell is going to become a teacher if thats part of your role..you are destroying the fabric of your society
if teachers have guns why shouldnt postmen..or anybody in a workplace where somebody might turn up with a gun...driving licence clerks, nurses...the whole premise of the idea is utter lunacy
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Sure. The Second Amendment is written to protect the population against a tyranicaty government, I understand that. But gun owners aren't forming militias, they don't do any regular training, they don't turn up to volunteer with disaster relief in their droves. It's a **** and bull story concocted to justify owning assault rifles.
It is beyond comical, Teachers and schools in the states are so cash strapped they use their own money to buy stuff/items for the school and kids..... yet seemingly there is a budget to give them all firearms training and buy everyone a gun.
Still nothing is going to change, due to second ammendent where they all think the owning of AR15`s is going to help them against a government with Tanks......
Arming teachers another step in making America great again....... Still might help to keep some kids inline... any lip from you son and its a kneecap gone.
Still nothing is going to change, due to second ammendent where they all think the owning of AR15`s is going to help them against a government with Tanks......
Arming teachers another step in making America great again....... Still might help to keep some kids inline... any lip from you son and its a kneecap gone.
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I actually agree with you for once!
There are likely thousands of individual militias in the US and there is a long history of US militias taking on the federal goverment....
I don't know why you would think militias or armed Americans in general would have to be involved in distater relief as part of exercising their constitutional right to bear arms?
Some Americans even believe its 'unconstitutional' to provide federal distater relief as its not 'uniform' provision of federal welfare....
To be clear, personally i don't agree with/ think it's a good idea in the modern world to have armed militias or to have an armed populace but i think its not just 'boys with toys' with Americans and their guns and it's a mistake to solely or even mainly charcterise the issue in this way.
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You can be you backside that half the gun totting testosterone fueled ego gun nutters in the NRA would turn tail and hide if put in the same position as the plod at the school.
If they were armed with a handgun against an assault weapon wielding opponent they may be well advised to not engage... Alternatively if they were themselves armed with assault weapons firing high velocity, high penetration rounds they might be advised to consider the potential pitfalls of adding more rounds fired in a school environment shooting...
I don't think anyone is suggesting he go on some Rambo/call of duty style one man raid on the building but if he did nothing, didn't even attempt to intervene/distract the shooter/save kids who were being killed en mass then he's not really fit to be a police officer.
It doesnt really matter, the 2nd ammedment has been tested in the Supreme Court and legally covers private gun ownership.
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Maybe if he was Ironman it would have been better...