Tory MP says people using term ‘white privilege’ should be reported to the Home Office as extremists

[Deleted User 298457]

I know right next people will be claiming all the British ex pat communities in Spain aren't perfectly integrated bastions of Spanish culture

And that's in spite of their significant economic advantage over the local residents. Imagine the flip side! Essentially indentured servitude, am I rite? No wonder why these people are cross!

https://brixtonblog.com/2018/06/windrush-a-post-war-subterranean-shelter/?cn-reloaded=1

 

[Dis86]

I don't hold Spanish ex-pats in too high a regard but summarising their British cultural identity as a shop that sells Crunchy Nut (and Watermelon? ) is not a glowing example

It's one example of them maintaining that identity. You can't be completely ignorant of British expat behaviour throughout the world?

 

[Deleted User 298457]

It's one example of them maintaining that identity. You can't be completely ignorant of British expat behaviour throughout the world?

I remember that one about British expats in 1775 but I don't get what that has to do with indentured servitude?

Being born in the UK is not some magic event that surpasses years of following a different culture, especially when the progeny choose to live divorced from English culture, have a significantly different religion, and shun many western values. You are being naive in the extreme to expect 3 generations living apart from, not integrating with British culture, and maintaining a devout following to a totally different sort of religion, to alter many basic traits. A place of birth on a birth certificate is not a proclamation of having embraced the culture and work ethics of said place.

Didn't the leaders at the time have a responsibility to integrate these folk? Or would you say some form of systemic racism was the force at play, and just as 3 generations isn't enough to "rid them of their own cultures", 3 generations isn't enough for full forgiveness from their descendants?

 

[arknor]

I guess it works both ways!!!

how many of those brands do you think are actually British? and not available in probably any European supermarket
expats be weird

seems even weirder seeing what appears to be a young girl in front of a bottle of wine, is that her shopping for the week?

 

[plasmahal]

how many of those brands do you think are actually British? and not available in probably any European supermarket
expats be weird

seems even weirder seeing what appears to be a young girl in front of a bottle of wine, is that her shopping for the week?

You are over thinking it!!!

 

[Tefal]

how many of those brands do you think are actually British? and not available in probably any European supermarket
expats be weird

seems even weirder seeing what appears to be a young girl in front of a bottle of wine, is that her shopping for the week?

I ont know I struggle to find most British stuff in italy

Although for many things here that's like saying I struggle to find dirt in a gold mine

 

[Fubsy]

The term causes consternation more than the concept, as you demonstrate.

You accept "minority disadvantage", but not "white privilege".

And it's interesting, in general, how uncomfortable people are with being labelled "privileged", but how comfortable they are with being so.

You, for example, recognise that white people face fewer challenges, it's therefore a bit easier for you than for an equivalent non-white person. But you baulk at calling it a privilege, because life is still tough.

I'm meandering a bit here, don't really have an overarching point. Part of me thinks it's a PR exercise : come up with a less contentious namefor it. But part of me thinks the discomfort is the point: we should squirm about the disparity.

Thanks for the response and also breaking down my thoughts in a much better way than I could. It's why I love this forum still. There doesn't seem to be anywhere else on the internet where you don't either get attacked and labelled (by righties and lefties) or attempts are made to lure you into some seedy slippery alt-right slope where the views are horrific and could only end in a bleak future for minorities if it ever gained traction.

This subject is frustrating as a white British person, but not half as bad as having to live through those moments where you have to think "is it just because I'm X?". In this country, the disparity is not caused by the fact people are white, it's caused by people treating non-white (and other minority white groups even) in a negative way through prejudice and preference (like a certain poster on here...) - such as the term white privilege and all it entails intends to do. The people of this country are generally, I've found anecdotally over the years, to be extremely empathetic and will listen and do what they can to counter injustice. However, I don't recognise a nation where it would be accepted that by the nature of one's own skin that individual "guilt" would be accepted unless someone has committed an act that has directly diminished a minority.

Yes, it's true, white folk may well have got a job over a black person let's say because the recruiter is a closet racist, but how is that the fault of anyone but the racist individual? If I became aware of such during the hiring process I would likely speak up, mainly because we've had these challenging stories and studies into the biases in hiring, but I would not EVER accept it as my fault by virtue of the colour of my skin. I think we should all respect that we are not defined by our unchosen characteristics, be that gender, sexuality, race, disability, etc

What do you believe the goal of labelling these disadvantages as "white privilege" is, if not to scapegoat a group of people and rile up hatred against a particular group merely on what they look like?

 

[arknor]

I ont know I struggle to find most British stuff in italy

Although for many things here that's like saying I struggle to find dirt in a gold mine

apart from walkers crisps and probably bisto, I could find every other item on that shops board in a normal swiss supermarket.

Kellogs are american.
Walkers is owned by pepsico so american.
Nestle own kitkat? swiss brand

they could call the place "little america" and still have mostly the same items on display.

gotta love british consumers easily brainwashed

 

[Tefal]

apart from walkers crisps and probably bisto, I could find every other item on that shops board in a normal swiss supermarket.

Kellogs are american.
Walkers is owned by pepsico so american.
Nestle own kitkat? swiss brand

they could call the place "little america" and still have mostly the same items on display.

gotta love british consumers easily brainwashed

I don't know ow about kellogs tbh I don't eat cereal.

Galaxy minstrels are something I'm often asked to being though

Walkers are lays outside the UK arent they?

I must admit in the uk we are spoiled by supermarkets doing paracetemol/shelf and otc pharmacy stuff.

But here so much more prepared food, deli counters, sweet counters, butcher sections with dressed cut options or roulade etc pasta dishes etc.


Also here gits charge more for the chilled drinks you'll find 1 flavour in the fridge and the rest on the shelves so the Barcodes work out and the fridge version about 10-20 cents more.

Never the good flavour in the fridge either

 

[arknor]

Walkers are lays outside the UK arent they?

I must admit in the uk we are spoiled by supermarkets doing paracetemol/shelf and otc pharmacy stuff.

But here so much more prepared food, deli counters, sweet counters, butcher sections with dressed cut options or roulade etc pasta dishes etc.

IDK don't think I ever saw them in Switzerland, saw Kettle and Mccoys. it's all big bags in switzerland none of this tiny packet nonsense the UK is obsessed with.

I used to take dozens of packs of ibuprofen with me every time I flew to Switzerland it's like 20-50pence vs £5-£7 a packet, swiss ones were 2-4x as strong though
seems it's normal for swiss people to cook or prepare their own meals.

barely any frozen food options or ready meals, tons of different cooking sauces though.

I've been trying to find schwartz red wine sauce in the UK but seems no where sells it , UK Parmigiano-Reggiano from supermarkets doesn't taste right either. they have the same stamp thing but taste like cheap knockoffs

switzerland shopping experiences for clothes or food reminds me of England in the 90s before everything went wrong :S it's so weirdly nostalgic

everyone uses cash too even the wealthy

 

[SpeedFreak]

I must admit, unless you are on a fixed term contract, the use of the term ex-pat is a bit odd when really they are immigrants.

 

[Dis86]

I must admit, unless you are on a fixed term contract, the use of the term ex-pat is a bit odd when really they are immigrants.

Emigrants to us. Bloody traitors!

 

[Chris Wilson]

Missionaries

 

[SpeedFreak]

Haha, very true

 

[silvagti]

I suppose the thing I mainly disliked about the term is that it's not so much that being white gives you privelege but that not being part of the indigenous population in a country disadvantages you. If I go to another country where I don't speak the language fluently, don't have a network of people around me, don't know the local customs, have a different religion/etc then clearly it puts me at a disadvantage compared to the indigenous population in a whole array of situations.

However, I think it's pretty unreasonable to frame that in a way which accuses the indigenous population as having some kind of "privelege" just because as a migrant you're at a disadvantage!

 

[robgmun]

I ont know I struggle to find most British stuff in italy

Although for many things here that's like saying I struggle to find dirt in a gold mine

Exactly! Why would you want to eat British stuff if you live in Italy of all places!! They have the best food in the world!

 

[Fubsy]

Thread keeps going off topic...
Anyway:

I suppose the thing I mainly disliked about the term is that it's not so much that being white gives you privelege but that not being part of the indigenous population in a country disadvantages you. If I go to another country where I don't speak the language fluently, don't have a network of people around me, don't know the local customs, have a different religion/etc then clearly it puts me at a disadvantage compared to the indigenous population in a whole array of situations.

However, I think it's pretty unreasonable to frame that in a way which accuses the indigenous population as having some kind of "privelege" just because as a migrant you're at a disadvantage!

You don't have to be a migrant though to have a negative experience. Second and third generations of migrant families are still being impacted by bigoted morons.

All people have prejudices, it's instinctive and inherent from the days of small tribes and wariness of the "outsider", and it's been useful (or not depending how you look it, as it ultimately always ends in conflict) historically to protect resources, land, people etc. The trick as an evolved species is to be aware of these prejudices and we should do our best to not act on these, then be ready to learn about the prejudices we hold that we weren't aware of. This is applicable to all people though, not just white people which is what CRT proponents want to be the case, hence the pushing of the "white privilege" narrative.

There's a fine line being walked at the moment on addressing the wrongs of racism and the temptation, it seems, to lay it all on white people and in turn create a focal point for hate as this could somehow bring about a solution?! The language used sounds like retribution is being sought - I fail to see how this brings us progress, unless your aim is to whip up an "us vs them" culture where groups just pile in on each other until there is only one standing - Angilion describes this group identity power grab quite well on a number of occasions on this forum but he generally gets ignored. This observation is often dismissed as white fragility and therefore begins the game of dodging the trap that's been set be the ideologues to brand you with the racist brush instead of arguing the points.

 

[Angilion]

I would not criticise that Asians suffer from prejudice in the UK, the same is true of Eastern Europeans.

However, if people in the UK who have been Anglo-Saxons or Normans for generations suffer prejudice, I suspect that there may be "other" reasons -perhaps they are just not very "nice" people?

Nice bit of victim blaming there. You're very progressive.

 

[LeMson]

reported owen jones, will see what happens

 

[plasmahal]

reported owen jones, will see what happens

To the thought police?