Tower block fire - london

StriderX · 14 Jun 2017 at 14:57

Then the responsibility falls to who put the net up if it fails...

dowie · 14 Jun 2017 at 15:00

gettothechopper said:
GD - where air doesnt contain oxygen

of course it contains it but you didn't say 'air' you said 'oxygen'

do you not understand that there is a substantial difference - something filled with oxygen does present a significant hazard compared with something filled with air

this is pretty basic stuff and why you were called out on it

Hagar · 14 Jun 2017 at 15:01

Any building much over nine storeys in height is impractical a) to reach by extending ladder and b) to pump a sufficient flow of water to unless the building has hydrant pumps suitable for above that level.

I

snips86x · 14 Jun 2017 at 15:01

Heartbreaking...struggling to read this while at work

They have lost their homes and for some, tragically, their relatives.

At times there is the sound of sobbing as the word goes round that someone is missing, someone is feared dead.

I've spent the day inside the community centre where survivors have gathered. Downstairs in the hall families sit at tables and wait for news.

One family told me they hadn't heard from their brother, sister and three children. Other relatives were out searching hospitals. There was still no news.

Outside the centre, Sawsan was with a group of women. For one it was too much - she was on the floor crying. Sawsan hasn't heard from her mum, sister, brother-in-law and nieces. She spoke to them when the fire started, but has heard nothing since.

Inside the centre, families are being helped with food, housing and medical treatment. It's busy and everyone is helping. Just not with the one thing they need: information about whether their relatives are safe.

Christabel told me how lucky her father had been. He tried to fight the fire but made it out alive. Ed was saved when a friend called him to tell him to get out the building. "I'm lucky" he says. But they have lost everything.

dowie · 14 Jun 2017 at 15:02

nkata said:
Any building much over nine storeys in height is impractical a) to reach by extending ladder and b) to pump a sufficient flow of water to unless the building has hydrant pumps suitable for above that level.

this is why LA fire department has cherry pickers and makes sure that really tall buildings have helicopter pads on the roof

gettothechopper · 14 Jun 2017 at 15:02

its complete nonsense

the idea that the fire brigade would show up at a fire and start rigging up some massive net - what do they attach it to? its a building surrounded by car park and grass, from the reports they struggled to get even fire engines near it anyway

Ayahuasca · 14 Jun 2017 at 15:02

StriderX said:
Then the responsibility falls to who put the net up if it fails...

What do you mean by fails? Someone ends up injured who'd have been injured from the fall anyway?

StriderX · 14 Jun 2017 at 15:04

Ayahuasca said:
What do you mean by fails? Someone ends up injured who'd have been injured from the fall anyway?

Doesn't matter surely?

You could technically make a claim that the net caused them suffering, people are dumb, this may not be the US litigation hellhole, but its not too far from it.

Richdog · 14 Jun 2017 at 15:04

gettothechopper said:
because they were dangerous and compeltely impractical, and only worked for a few stories at most

a massive plastic inflatable full of oxygen next to a building on fire that is raining burning debris everywhere?

ok pal

They were more dangerous than jumping on to bare concrete? Full of 'flammable oxygen'? *** Comment removed ****

gettothechopper · 14 Jun 2017 at 15:05

dowie said:
of course it contains it but you didn't say 'air' you said 'oxygen'

do you not understand that there is a substantial difference - something filled with oxygen does present a significant hazard compared with something filled with air

this is pretty basic stuff and why you were called out on it

are you five years old?
dont be so obtuse

i was mearly pointing out that putting plastic inflatable things next to fires isnt a great idea, yes obviously if it was full of pure oxygen it would make a great big fireball
even with just nice normal air it wouldnt be the best idea would it?

"called out on it" get a life :rolleyes:

Above&Beyond · 14 Jun 2017 at 15:07

Richdog said:
Actually they did exist and were used up until recently in modern history... I had no idea they had stopped using them until I just Googled them. It seems crazy in this day and age that they can't get large inflatable devices that break falls from large heights, especially, considering it greatly improves the odds of not breaking every bone in your body vs jumping directly onto concrete..

A load of firemen standing under a roasting hot burning building where great chunks of masonry are falling 200ft doesn't seem a great idea even if they had access to such a device. It said the firemen had trouble even getting in the building never mind rigging up nets and other contraptions.

balky12 · 14 Jun 2017 at 15:07

Besides being potentially abused by drunks.. why don't high rise apartments have strong attachment points, and emergency rope/ carabiners, so occupants can abseil themselves down, perhaps one in each room or ones at communal areas?

People might say training needs to be involved, which is probably out of the question, however if you are at the point of abseiling out of your high rise apartment you are probably at last chance saloon and out of options. Learning to abseil, or just climb down the rope, on the fly probably has a higher chance of survival than jumping...

dowie · 14 Jun 2017 at 15:08

gettothechopper said:
its complete nonsense

the idea that the fire brigade would show up at a fire and start rigging up some massive net - what do they attach it to? its a building surrounded by car park and grass, from the reports they struggled to get even fire engines near it anyway

LA fire department with an air cushion (note - not an 'oxygen' cushion)

gettothechopper · 14 Jun 2017 at 15:08

Richdog said:
They were more dangerous than jumping on to bare concrete? Full of 'flammable oxygen'? .

who said flammable? not me

sure carry on posting stupid suggrestions about things that are completely moronic and impossible (let alone not available to these firefighters)

im going to stop now as this thread is getting swamped with enough nonsence from you lot

Caged · 14 Jun 2017 at 15:09

Shoza said:
Building Regulations already require this in part so I suspect Rydon and the Council's Building Control team are to blame..

Unfortunately if developers can't be relied upon to install potentially flammable materials in a responsible and safe fashion then the only thing that will make them change that is the law. If it pushes up material costs then so be it.

StriderX · 14 Jun 2017 at 15:10

I do wonder what will replace this building though, it is Kensington after all.

Richdog · 14 Jun 2017 at 15:10

gettothechopper said:
are you five years old?
dont be so obtuse

i was mearly pointing out that putting plastic inflatable things next to fires isnt a great idea, yes obviously if it was full of pure oxygen it would make a great big fireball
even with just nice normal air it wouldnt be the best idea would it?

"called out on it" get a life

gettothechopper said:
who said flammable? not me

sure carry on posting stupid suggrestions about things that are completely moronic and impossible (let alone not available to these firefighters)

im going to stop now as this thread is getting swamped with enough nonsence from you lot

Yesh we wil stop with the nonsencical sugrestions. Hav fun.

PS: I believe treatment exists for ALMS (Angry Little Man Syndrome).

iamtheoneneo · 14 Jun 2017 at 15:10

balky12 said:
Besides being potentially abused by drunks.. why don't high rise apartments have strong attachment points, and emergency rope/ carabiners, so occupants can abseil themselves down, perhaps one in each room or ones at communal areas?

People might say training needs to be involved, which is probably out of the question, however if you are at the point of abseiling out of your high rise apartment you are probably at last chance saloon and out of options. Learning to abseil, or just climb down the rope, on the fly probably has a higher chance of survival than jumping...

As a former climber the majority of the general public know nothing about abseiling, carabiner management, and putting on a harness/roping up.
You start endorsing that and your be asking for trouble and many unnecessary deaths

dowie · 14 Jun 2017 at 15:11

gettothechopper said:
are you five years old?
dont be so obtuse

i was mearly pointing out that putting plastic inflatable things next to fires isnt a great idea, yes obviously if it was full of pure oxygen it would make a great big fireball
even with just nice normal air it wouldnt be the best idea would it?

"called out on it" get a life

I'm certainly not the one being obtuse here. No one has been abusive or angry to you either but just pulled you up on something a bit silly.

Ayahuasca · 14 Jun 2017 at 15:11

StriderX said:
Doesn't matter surely?

You could technically make a claim that the net caused them suffering, people are dumb, this may not be the US litigation hellhole, but its not too far from it.

That doesn't make much sense to me but hopefully a member of the fire service is on here and can explain why nothing is used to cushion falls.

To the point about it putting the fire service at danger, from the video I've seen they were all around and inside the building anyway early on until fears of it collapsing came about. Surely in this day and age an automatic deploying or a fast deployment device exists or could be created.