Tower block fire - london

do_ron_ron said:
Cheapest, unsafe shoddy materials. Lying manufaturers. FB not up to scratch in dealing with this type of incident. I suppose we will hear 'Lessons will be learned', 'Never happen again' etc, etc. Nobody will be prosecuted. Sad.
Click to expand...

There was this film in the 1970s called “The Towering Inferno” which tried to warn us about fires in tall buildings.

  • Chief O'Hallorhan: [sighs] Architects.
  • Doug Roberts: Yeah, it's all our fault.
  • Chief O'Hallorhan: Now, you know there's no sure way for us to fight a fire in anything over the seventh floor, but you guys just keep building 'em as high as you can.
  • Doug Roberts: Hey. Are you here to take me on, or the fire?

And:

  • Doug Roberts: I thought we were building something that... where people could work and live and be SAFE! If you had to cut costs, why didn't you cut floors instead of corners?
  • James Duncan: Now listen. Any decisions that were made for the use of alternate building materials were made because I as a builder have a right to make those decisions; if I remain within the building code and god-dammit, I did!
  • Doug Roberts: [Chuckling] Building code? Jesus. Building code. Come on, Dunc, I mean that's a standard cop-out when you're in trouble. I was crawling around up there. I mean, duct holes weren't fire-stopped! Corridors without fire doors in it, sprinklers won't work, and an electrical system that's good for what? I mean, it's good for starting fires! Hoo boy, where was I when all this was going on? Because I'm just as guilty as you and that god-damned son-in-law of yours! What do they call it when you kill people?
 
Last edited:
Even the company providing the cladding who have been proven to be manipulating their testing results and have texts to show they knew this and were going to cash in big time.
I am sorry but a majority involved in testing and the cover up at that company, deserve to be locked in a room... in a building high up...
 
Dis86 said:
That's the mad thing. There are individuals who can be clearly seen to be culpable in this and they're gonna walk.
Click to expand...
This is the biggest problem with having an ideologically-driven push for private sector self-regulation whilst constantly hiding behind the excuse that actually it was because the regulator didn't do it's job, the net result is nobody goes to prison for murdering people and causing severe financial stress for anyone else trapped in these death boxes because the government certainly isn't paying for it nor are any of the builders who used this garbage.

It really is time to dispense with this insult and arrest them all, from ex-ministers (for not doing their job) down to the execs (for also not doing their job) of these companies.
 
Last edited:
sidimmu said:
So after all these years, numerous reports blasting councils, fire brigades, building regulations, government and more.... Not a single person will see a criminal conviction.

Corruption pays well, clearly.
Click to expand...

Its so endemic. Who cares about lives, manipulating test results and taking bribes when even if you're found guilty nothing happens.

Corruption absolutely pays.
 
Alongside all the other contributing issues, there will 100% be people in the cladding manufacturing companies who were aware of what the tests showed, were aware of how the products would be used, and decided to manipulate / lie about the cladding's performance anyway, and market it how they did.

If we can't send any of those people to prison then what are we even doing. There were a lot of different failures from lots of different organisations and people, and various systemic issues that resulted in cladding being installed in the way it was, but it sounds like the manufacturers themselves were the most dishonest party (as opposed to just being uncaring or incompetent, which it might be harder to find a criminal charge for).

I also don't think I'll ever forget what the fire brigade commissioner said in evidence - “I wouldn’t change anything we did on the night.”
Shows appalling awareness and decision making at the highest levels.
 
Last edited:
I genuinely think that if no one is going to be charged in instances like this it will just spur victims and vigilantes to go through the underworld to get their justice instead, honestly it's probably already happening.

It's probably just a matter of stupidity rising beyond capability, but do these guys really want that kind of world? They could eat a short white collar stint in prison... except they'd rather choose a growing risk of angering so many people that somebody will end their life over it instead.
 
Last edited:
StriderX said:
This is the biggest problem with having an ideologically-driven push for private sector self-regulation whilst constantly hiding behind the excuse that actually it was because the regulator didn't do it's job, the net result is nobody goes to prison for murdering people and causing severe financial stress for anyone else trapped in these death boxes because the government certainly isn't paying for it nor are any of the builders who used this garbage.

It really is time to dispense with this insult and arrest them all, from ex-ministers (for not doing their job) down to the execs (for also not doing their job) of these companies.
Click to expand...
Firstly, we start where it hurts, money and share price. Fine them a large percentage so share holders run for the hills because the company can’t get its act together. It’s amazing how CEO’s change their tune then money and shareholders are concerned, suddenly the will be fix things magically starts.

I know it’s totally against the free market, let them self regulate, friendly for business mentality we’ve been told is the promised post Brexit land, Singapore on the Sea nonsense but it’s clear things won’t change. Firms won’t change and why should they? There is no incentive to and the powerful lobbyists always seem to win, with watering down of promised legislation, eg workers rights being the latest, which I guarantee will essentially be unchanged, with “right to ask your boss for this or that but they can just say…no”, so waste of time then.
 
StriderX said:
It really is time to dispense with this insult and arrest them all, from ex-ministers (for not doing their job) down to the execs (for also not doing their job) of these companies.
Click to expand...

The mistake you are making is thinking these people didn't do their jobs. Their jobs are not to protect people. The execs job is to make as much money as possible and grow the company. The damage you do along the way is irrelevant. As long as the cost to the company when they are caught is less than the profits, screw it, do it. Whats the old saying? If the fine for breaking the rules is less than you gain from breaking them then its just the cost of doing business. Same in the banking sector. Same in every sector. When you see a massive fine in the banking sector, just know that they probably made 10x that amount from breaking the rules.

As to ministers, they don't give a **** most of the time. They want to be re-elected. They want headlines and stats. They don't get pats on the back and rise through the ranks by saying "Well yes we didn't build all the flats we could have because I wanted to build them to a good standard".

Almost everything in society is set up to enable the rich and powerful to cheat and extract wealth from those beneath them.
 
413x said:
Its so endemic. Who cares about lives, manipulating test results and taking bribes when even if you're found guilty nothing happens.

Corruption absolutely pays.
Click to expand...

if it was a building populated by mostly rich tory donor type toffs there would have been merry hell raised and long jail sentences, but because they were mostly poor, brown people no one actually gives enough ***** and the corporate corruption merry go round will carry on spining until the day a few rich white tories end up getting baked alive, then they will get the book thrown at them........................
 
Last edited:
wildman said:
if it was a building populated by mostly rich tory donor type toffs there would have been merry hell raised and long jail sentences, but because they were mostly poor, brown people no one actually gives enough ***** and the corporate corruption merry go round will carry on spining until the day a few rich white tories end up getting baked alive, then they will get the book thrown at them........................
Click to expand...

I was going to type out a long argument countering this, but on contemplation, I honestly have no counter. It's a shame that this is what happens in society (note: I said society, not this country, as this happens everywhere, not just the UK).
 
sidimmu said:
Even the company providing the cladding who have been proven to be manipulating their testing results and have texts to show they knew this and were going to cash in big time.
I am sorry but a majority involved in testing and the cover up at that company, deserve to be locked in a room... in a building high up...
Click to expand...
The companies involved knew that the cladding was unsafe and deliberately targeted countries like the UK and others where they knew regulations were weak so sell their product deliberately giving false information about safety when asked. Local council committees were more concerned about protecting theirs and the council's reputation than listening to and paying attention to the residents or reports on safety or otherwise of the building. Fire officer didn't even have the qualifications for the job he said he did he made most of them up and was in charge of more than 160 buildings - clearly a ludicrous situation how can anyone monitor anything on that kind of basis? Answer: you can't. Tenants simply ignored and pleas dismissed out of hand like they were simply a nuisance. Its an appalling litany of failure and maladministration. And yet their are thousands of building with exactly the same cladding and tenants who say they simply aren't listened to all over the country, just the same and nothing has changed.

When I was growing up you used to see documentaries on third world countries where the most appalling things happened due to corruption, complacency, negligence, with the elites just getting away with it and doing whatever they liked with impunity and you used to shake your head and think thank goodness we live in a first would country thats better than that where that can never happen. Well I'm ashamed to say we have now become that country, I never thought I'd see it. Yet here we are.

StriderX said:
Maybe in 20 years like every other scandal the inquiry will finally recommend that the criminals who murdered all the people in Grenfell as well as potentially future atrocities should get a slap on the wrist for being very naughty. Can't be punishing white collar crime as it might mean actual consequences for all these delboy ********.
Click to expand...
Yes Minister: "the purpose of a public inquiry is to drag it out for so long that everyone forgets what it was for". Its cost £170m so far with £100m of that going into lawyer's fees.
 
StriderX said:
I genuinely think that if no one is going to be charged in instances like this it will just spur victims and vigilantes to go through the underworld to get their justice instead, honestly it's probably already happening.

It's probably just a matter of stupidity rising beyond capability, but do these guys really want that kind of world? They could eat a short white collar stint in prison... except they'd rather choose a growing risk of angering so many people that somebody will end their life over it instead.
Click to expand...

I don't think most of the people affected, who are on the breadline are going full on Liam Neeson from Taken


Sadly it's just ultra rich people getting away with manslaughter. Also they absolutely should not be getting a 'short sentence', not that they'll get any but it should be regular manslaughter sentence
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom