Tower block fire - london

The estimate for number of people in there is between 400 and 600 - on one of the streams someone who lived there reckoned there was at least 40 people still inside above the maximum height they could evacuate.
 
dowie said:
seems more like one of them was continually mincing about and the other two had to keep stopping and waiting for him
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they were testing it, plus the first guy dropped his radio and stopped to grab it which you wouldn't be doing in an emergency.

it's still better than inflatable bouncy castles full of burning debris, ropes and leaving the sick and the children to die, or hitting concrete.

although again it's better to have a functioning fire alarm, a sprinkler system and a building that's not flammable.
 
It's not hard to see how the estimate of 400+ residents is reached. There's some information on the building here:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...ed-at-grenfell-tower-london-fire-visual-guide

20 floors with same layout - four 2-bed flats and two 1-bed flats per floor.

Given the pressure on housing in London, 2 persons per bedroom as an average isn't unlikely, so that gets you to 400 straight away. Then there's probably some flats with higher occupancy to take that figure higher.
 
dowie said:
LA fire department with an air cushion (note - not an 'oxygen' cushion)

VRkABL6.jpg
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https://www.fresnofiretraining.net/docdirectory/300 TE/306.005.pdf

These things are generally only rated to 70ft, another I found was 40m but was actually quite small.

People don't know and aren't trained to jump out of huge buildings.

If you put one out rated at 40m, then someone on a floor above is going to jump anyway, they'll explode the device and die on impact anyway. Someone who is only 7 floors up will jump but think he needs to push off from the building and will miss the thing.

It's in no way practical. These things are mostly used for situations like jumpers off bridges/shorter buildings, with no fires around and one person. People were stuck in their rooms all over at different windows, it would take several dozen hours to get them all out that way and a lot would miss, jump from higher than they should, even telling someone on the 9th floor not to jump would be nearly impossible in loud conditions. Then you have the fire the heat was so intense they were staying away from the building, it was unsafe at many points for firemen to be close enough to the building to deploy something like this.

It's impractical in any possible way you could think about it. The time needed between jumps to fill it up, the positions of everyone, the danger of getting close enough, the inability to communicate and even the windows on the building themselves. High rise windows aren't designed to open all the way or be easy to get out of meaning many people will have to smash the windows and effectively just flop out over them.

Very few departments have them anywhere in the world because they are of such completely limited use.

The other problem is, imagine you have 100 people who see the thing and so decide to jump and end up dying when if they stayed put it turns out the fireman would eventually get the fire under control and they wouldn't die.

I would bet that in any department that has them there is a strict rule that they don't get used unless the full height of the building is lower or at the limit of the height the air cushion is rated for. IE if it's rated for 40m(the biggest I could find) you wouldn't use it for a building of 60m high precisely for the reasons above.
 
Such terrible and shocking news. Some of the images are truly harrowing. Can't imagine how it'd feel being in that situation. My heart goes out to those who have lost loved ones and everyone who has lost their home! As always the community spirit and support of each other is good to see.
 
StriderX said:
Why cant we just make spidersilk cushions then?

I mean it'd cost several million just for one of them, but the technology is here.
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If the can't afford sprinklers do you think they'll have money for that ? Things are difficult for councils and they're only going to get worse.
 
StriderX said:
Why cant we just make spidersilk cushions then?

I mean it'd cost several million just for one of them, but the technology is here.
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According to one of the books from my childhood, asbestos suits were the latest thing for firefighters.
 
How hard would it be to create an inflatable platform capable of rising 20+ floors high? I am not sure what sort of material could withstand the sort of heat coming from a fire like that, but I assume there must be something. Imagine being able to erect a temporary skyscraper, alongside a structure which is on fire or likely to collapse? Problem solved. Could even flood compartments in it with water to give stability.

Granted, this is probably less practical than a sprinkler system. But it boggles my mind to think that they cannot easily rescue those people.
 
In its latest statement, the Kensington and Chelsea Tenant Management Organisation says it is "too early to speculate what caused the fire and contributed to its spread".

It goes on: "We are aware that concerns have been raised historically by residents.

"We always take all concerns seriously and these will form part of our forthcoming investigations. While these investigations continue with our co-operation, our core priority at the moment is our residents."
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So not only until something goes wrong do they actually acknowledge there were concerns but now they're going to act on them?? WTF is wrong with these people!!
 
Schlong&Stable said:
How hard would it be to create an inflatable platform capable of rising 20+ floors high? I am not sure what sort of material could withstand the sort of heat coming from a fire like that, but I assume there must be something. Imagine being able to erect a temporary skyscraper, alongside a structure which is on fire or likely to collapse? Problem solved. Could even flood compartments in it with water to give stability.

Granted, this is probably less practical than a sprinkler system. But it boggles my mind to think that they cannot easily rescue those people.
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I'm sure it'd be easier to just build buildings that aren't death traps. Older buildings aren't going anywhere due to the crazy land prices and greed of owners
 
Schlong&Stable said:
How hard would it be to create an inflatable platform capable of rising 20+ floors high? I am not sure what sort of material could withstand the sort of heat coming from a fire like that, but I assume there must be something. Imagine being able to erect a temporary skyscraper, alongside a structure which is on fire or likely to collapse? Problem solved. Could even flood compartments in it with water to give stability.

Granted, this is probably less practical than a sprinkler system. But it boggles my mind to think that they cannot easily rescue those people.
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The problem is it'd take way too long to inflate. It could hypothetically be done, but creating something which could inflate fast enough would involve a frame, which would kind of defeat the purpose of it being quick to erect and portable. Even if it were possible, you'd need to surround the building with them otherwise the occupants would have to travel across a potentially lethal building to get to it.

It's not a bad idea though, with enough development and financing I'm sure something could come of it.
 
d_brennen said:
I'm sure it'd be easier to just build buildings that aren't death traps. Older buildings aren't going anywhere due to the crazy land prices and greed of owners
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Which is exactly why Thompson's idea is decent. We're stuck with crap buildings, so might as well come up with safe exit devices.
 
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