Tower block fire - london

[John40]

If you know for sure that it started accidentally then you could always provide that information to the BBC yourself. The presenter was very clear to challenge the opinion but it's not the job of the news to really go any further.

She didn't challenge the idiot at all, kept nodding and gave him far too much airtime, people dead and missing and the conspiracy theorists are already going at it full tilt.

 

[Diddums]

Was surprised not to see helicopters rescuing people from the roof like in America. We are so far behind other countries in terms of fire regulations, no sprinklers or emergency exits on the side of the building is beyond shocking.

Erm, no. If you saw the regulations we have to adhere to it'd really change your mind. This block was built before the regs wee put in place, hence the lack of fire systems. Our building for example has over 600 fire doors, pre-action systems, VESDA systems, main sprinkler system and a very comprehensive fire alarm system.

When I was in the states last I was amazed at how backwards they can be when it comes to life critical systems and procedures.

 

[robfosters]

The reaction of the locals has been fantastic. People turning up with so much food and supplies that the centres are no longer able to take any more in.

Sometimes it seems like the general public responds better to situations like this than the government is capable of.

 

[glenimp617]

how can 35mm gap suddenly make the cladding extremely flammable? doesn't make sense to me

Something to do with funneling the fire through an easy path whilst providing oxygen. The expert on the news seemed to know what he was talking about.

The way you say that, it does not make any sense at all 100%

It does when you think about the speed and ease the fire spread.

 

[Dis86]

how can 35mm gap suddenly make the cladding extremely flammable? doesn't make sense to me

It's primary school science.

Hot air rises.

Ergo creates a pressure differential within a confined space which draws more air in. This creates air flow and also provides more oxygen. You therefore get hotter flames and they spread more quickly.

 

[Hagar]

It's primary school science.

Hot air rises.

Ergo creates a pressure differential within a confined space which draws more air in. This creates air flow and also provides more oxygen. You therefore get hotter flames and they spread more quickly.

Plus you have wind which could create a suction in the gap and draw the very hot air into the space. An intumescent seal or strip between the outer cladding face and the old building facade could have been useful in this case.

 

[The Funktopus]

Was surprised not to see helicopters rescuing people from the roof like in America. We are so far behind other countries in terms of fire regulations, no sprinklers or emergency exits on the side of the building is beyond shocking.

Given the effect ingesting the hot gases rising from the building would have on a helicopter's gas turbine engines, the emergency services would probably have to add a helicopter crash to the stuff they'd already be dealing with. Furthermore, the thermal currents resulting from that fire would make controlling a helicopter in close enough proximity to carry out a rescue pretty much impossible.

 

[eddiemcgarrigle]

Reports that fire service originally told people to stay in their flats. Apparently that is standard policy for fires in high rise blocks.

They changed their mind once they saw how severe the fire was and was telling people to come down if they could.

It may turn out the fire was underestimated.

I haven't seen the report of anyone being told to stay in place but the common practice is just that. High rise blocks are designed that each house is an individual compartment where, because of the concrete structure, any house fire should not spread beyond that compartment. In this instance, it wasn't a case of keeping fire from spreading out of the compartment, it spread in from the outside cladding.

 

[LOAM]

It was a rain screen cladding, it has to have an air gap behind the cladding. It should have intumescent barriers at each floor level vertically though and horizontally as well (off hand I can't remember what the dimension is).

 

[Irish_Tom]

Given the effect ingesting the hot gases rising from the building would have on a helicopter's gas turbine engines, the emergency services would probably have to add a helicopter crash to the stuff they'd already be dealing with. Furthermore, the thermal currents resulting from that fire would make controlling a helicopter in close enough proximity to carry out a rescue pretty much impossible.

Not to mention fanning the flames below…

 

[dowie]

Erm, no. If you saw the regulations we have to adhere to it'd really change your mind. This block was built before the regs wee put in place, hence the lack of fire systems. Our building for example has over 600 fire doors, pre-action systems, VESDA systems, main sprinkler system and a very comprehensive fire alarm system.

When I was in the states last I was amazed at how backwards they can be when it comes to life critical systems and procedures.

so if this block and other 70s tower blocks like it were knocked down then the new buildings built to replace them would likely be safer?

 

[platinum87]

Something to do with funneling the fire through an easy path whilst providing oxygen. The expert on the news seemed to know what he was talking about.

It does when you think about the speed and ease the fire spread.

Every building has a cavity between he interior wall and the exterior wall, this can be left empty or filled with insulation, (air is insultion also)

Every once in a while you can put an airbrick in (http://www.shawpreservations.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Air-Brick-01.jpg) to allow air to circulate slowly, this is not enough to fuel a fire. Apart from these airbricks, the cavity is sealed

There is nothing to complain about as you mentioned because you cannot see this.

There is nothing wrong with doing this, and it does not help any fire spread, the airflow is enough to dry the bricks, not to funnel air to a fire.

Why do you feel posting random barely coherent sentences is acceptable? One Muslim guy told me that Jews sell pork to give people cancer because they sell medicine to sick people. I'm sure he heard that from an expert also, probably on the BBC too considering they are complete morons.

 

[glenimp617]

I'm only going by what the "experts" are saying on the news, but the building was safer (not safe) before the cladding. Issues with all sorts including crap fire doors.

 

[LOAM]

Every building has a cavity between he interior wall and the exterior wall, this can be left empty or filled with insulation, (air is insultion also)

Every once in a while you can put an airbrick in (http://www.shawpreservations.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Air-Brick-01.jpg) to allow air to circulate slowly, this is not enough to fuel a fire. Apart from these airbricks, the cavity is sealed

There is nothing to complain about as you mentioned because you cannot see this.

There is nothing wrong with doing this, and it does not help any fire spread, the airflow is enough to dry the bricks, not to funnel air to a fire.

Why do you feel posting random barely coherent sentences is acceptable? One Muslim guy told me that Jews sell pork to give people cancer because they sell medicine to sick people. I'm sure he heard that from an expert also, probably on the BBC too considering they are complete morons.

They are talking about the air gap between the back of the new cladding and the existing concrete spandrels.

 

[Diddums]

so if this block and other 70s tower blocks like it were knocked down then the new buildings built to replace them would likely be safer?

Absolutely.

 

[dowie]

If the existing building was built (refurbished) to code (which it allegedly was) then just building a new one to the same codes doesn't make it inherently safer. Either the codes have not kept up with modern building methods and materials used, or the work is not being inspected properly.

see above from Diddums who I believe works in facilities/maintenance in a tall building

 

[Above&Beyond]

Forensic architect on BBC speculating on the cladding acting as a chimney theory.

 

[asim18]

nvm

 

[glenimp617]

Forensic architect on BBC speculating on the cladding acting as a chimney theory.

OCUK experts have debunked that theory

 

[MadMossy]

Absolutely.

Indeed building regulations have changed drastically in the past 40 years