Trading the stockmarket (NO Referrals)

willhub · 23 Dec 2019 at 18:44

Is there an app where you can deposit an amount and instantly make money? This guy I work with seemed to just put some money in and made 3 quid 50 instantly and withdrew it, that's like an instant free coffee! What is this?

On another note, I'm seriously considering looking at trading the stock market, I need another stream to make money aside from my job and it would be good if I can get into trading, I'm hesitant and I don't want to stack some money make some beginners luck and loose money in the long run.

macuser · 23 Dec 2019 at 19:38

willhub said:
Is there an app where you can deposit an amount and instantly make money? This guy I work with seemed to just put some money in and made 3 quid 50 instantly and withdrew it, that's like an instant free coffee! What is this?

On another note, I'm seriously considering looking at trading the stock market, I need another stream to make money aside from my job and it would be good if I can get into trading, I'm hesitant and I don't want to stack some money make some beginners luck and loose money in the long run.

The guy at work is probably spread betting, best keep well away from that if you don't know what you are doing.

dowie · 23 Dec 2019 at 20:39

macuser said:
The guy at work is probably spread betting, best keep well away from that if you don't know what you are doing.

^^^ This

In fact in most situations people who know what they're doing would tend to stay away from it tbh... aside from the occasional directional punt/bet over several hours/few days it is generally not the best tool to use and is deceptively expensive - this isn't apparent to mug punters (or even some people who work in the city and perhaps should know better) but is immediately apparent to anyone with experience of intraday trading - whether ex locals, ex screen based futures traders or current day market makers/HFT types.

willhub said:
On another note, I'm seriously considering looking at trading the stock market, I need another stream to make money aside from my job and it would be good if I can get into trading, I'm hesitant and I don't want to stack some money make some beginners luck and loose money in the long run.

Chances are you will lose money, especially if you know very little about it. Good chance you'll lose money still even if you dedicate hours trying to learn in your spare time - there is so much BS out there.

Look back at the OP and then see what happened in the end with his attempt at doing this solo.

Not that it is impossible to be an individual trader - problem is you generally ought to have a certain background in order to be able to do this successfully and that tends to involve having previously been employed as a trader or researcher/quant trader (more commonly the latter these days).

seanyc5 · 27 Dec 2019 at 12:00

Hi all,

A little bit of help if I may.

I have Vanguard ISA from this year - only since August nowhere near the limit.

I have a trading 212 Invest account also from this year for individual stocks, obviously, I could not opt for another ISA this year. I only had this a couple of months.

I'm unsure on what to do come April, do I sell off my shares in the Invest Account and create a trading 212 ISA and buy back the shares?

Also, I have read that you can not pay into two stocks and shares ISAs in one tax year even if you are not at the limit, so this is leading me to believe that converting the 212 account into an ISA is pointless as I then would not be able to pay into the Vanguard ISA.

My final option is to sell Vanguard ETFs in my Vanguard ISA and open trading 212 ISA in April as the ETFs are also on that platform. Consolidating into one ISA.

How do you lot work it? I will not be hitting the limit for an ISA if that makes any difference.

Finally, can you pay £20000 per year every into the same ISA? I have read the remaining balance does not roll over but it is not clear if it resets back to £20k every year. If this is the case then the last option is best I think.

Thanks,
Sean

Uther · 1 Jan 2020 at 16:30

Vanguard are launching their SIPP soon, with apparently the lowest account fee on the market, 0.15%. It seems quite good on the surface considering HL run at 0.45%.
Obviously you can only invest in Vanguard funds though.

The_Abyss · 1 Jan 2020 at 21:51

There are plenty of fixed fee SIPP operators out there who'll be cheaper once your fund goes over around £200k. However, to be fair to Vanguard, that's not their primary target market.

platinum87 · 2 Jan 2020 at 12:49

The_Abyss said:
There are plenty of fixed fee SIPP operators out there who'll be cheaper once your fund goes over around £200k. However, to be fair to Vanguard, that's not their primary target market.

FYI Vanguard cap @ £250,000, meaning the maximum fee per year is £375, this is the cheapest AFAIK.

seanyc5 said:
Hi all,

A little bit of help if I may.

I have Vanguard ISA from this year - only since August nowhere near the limit.

I have a trading 212 Invest account also from this year for individual stocks, obviously, I could not opt for another ISA this year. I only had this a couple of months.

I'm unsure on what to do come April, do I sell off my shares in the Invest Account and create a trading 212 ISA and buy back the shares?

Also, I have read that you can not pay into two stocks and shares ISAs in one tax year even if you are not at the limit, so this is leading me to believe that converting the 212 account into an ISA is pointless as I then would not be able to pay into the Vanguard ISA.

My final option is to sell Vanguard ETFs in my Vanguard ISA and open trading 212 ISA in April as the ETFs are also on that platform. Consolidating into one ISA.

How do you lot work it? I will not be hitting the limit for an ISA if that makes any difference.

Finally, can you pay £20000 per year every into the same ISA? I have read the remaining balance does not roll over but it is not clear if it resets back to £20k every year. If this is the case then the last option is best I think.

Thanks,
Sean

You can open and put money into each type of ISA per year.

You've already opened a stocks and shares ISA this year, you can also open a cash isa, or an innovative finance isa or both.

Once opened you can deposit whatever in whichever you'd like, up to a combined total of £20,000 per tax year.

You should forget about trading 212, and simply keep your vanguard ISA, and invest regularly i.e. every month buy whatever funds you have chosen

If you really must trade, then in April you can turn your 212 into an ISA, while keeping your vanguard and deposit into both of them.

My prediction is you will stop that trading and end up with only your vanguard, quote this post when that happens.

The_Abyss · 2 Jan 2020 at 13:21

There are plenty of SIPP operators who do a fixed annual fee of less than £375 for simple investments such as Vanguard.

seanyc5 · 2 Jan 2020 at 18:42

platinum87 said:
FYI Vanguard cap @ £250,000, meaning the maximum fee per year is £375, this is the cheapest AFAIK.

You can open and put money into each type of ISA per year.

You've already opened a stocks and shares ISA this year, you can also open a cash isa, or an innovative finance isa or both.

Once opened you can deposit whatever in whichever you'd like, up to a combined total of £20,000 per tax year.

You should forget about trading 212, and simply keep your vanguard ISA, and invest regularly i.e. every month buy whatever funds you have chosen

If you really must trade, then in April you can turn your 212 into an ISA, while keeping your vanguard and deposit into both of them.

My prediction is you will stop that trading and end up with only your vanguard, quote this post when that happens.

I'm not using the trading212 to 'trade' rather for dividends. holding the stocks long term along with the etf's. I just thought come April I should create an ISA as you can buy fractional shares of the very same ETF's Vanguard has - same costs. I like this idea as I can buy say exactly £200 or whatever it may be of shares. With Vanguard you might do a Direct Debit for £200 but it will only buy say 3 shares then leave you with £43 in cash or whatever.

I can drop money into 212 and buy shares instantly in the ETF, Vanguard takes about 3 days to do this and can only do £500 lump sum or £100 a month min.

Why do you think I should stick with Vanguard, ignoring the individual stocks? I see only upsides by using 212 unless I am missing something obvious.

Thanks for replying,
Sean

macuser · 2 Jan 2020 at 20:35

seanyc5 said:
Why do you think I should stick with Vanguard, ignoring the individual stocks?

I have a total of 10 investments split between my ISA S&S (3 funds & 5 stocks) and SIPP (2 funds). The funds are for long term only and the stocks I use short term (from 1 to 18 months), taking profit once it hits a certain level. I always keep track of stocks I have sold in the past and often re-invest in the same stock if the opportunity arises. I do enjoy stock picking.

Edit: I'm not familiar with the Vanguard platform, I'm assuming you can only invest in Vanguard funds?

platinum87 · 2 Jan 2020 at 21:31

seanyc5 said:
Why do you think I should stick with Vanguard, ignoring the individual stocks? I see only upsides by using 212 unless I am missing something obvious.

The general problem with buying shares is you will not be properly diversified, and the trading costs will make it more expensive, thus requiring more money.

However as there are no fees, none of that should be a problem in theory, So yea, its really really good, for share dealing anyway.

However i am suspicious of no fees.

Regardless, i do not expect to beat the index by choosing which companies to invest, and the vanguard fee is low enough to not bother about, thus its better to play games or any hobby than spending time looking at companies and thinking about them.

The_Abyss said:
There are plenty of SIPP operators who do a fixed annual fee of less than £375 for simple investments such as Vanguard.

Yes i see, £120 a year, Im not really interested in SIIP's so have not had a look at what is available. In either case, the vanguard cap applies account wide.

seanyc5 · 2 Jan 2020 at 21:33

macuser said:
I have a total of 10 investments split between my ISA S&S (3 funds & 5 stocks) and SIPP (2 funds). The funds are for long term only and the stocks I use short term (from 1 to 18 months), taking profit once it hits a certain level. I always keep track of stocks I have sold in the past and often re-invest in the same stock if the opportunity arises. I do enjoy stock picking.

Edit: I'm not familiar with the Vanguard platform, I'm assuming you can only invest in Vanguard funds?

Yeah index/ETF only SIPP coming soon. My plan was index/ETF for long term, then a portfolio of say 30 or so for dividend income (hopefully somewhat overlapping so its near monthly income, then re-invest the dividend). and maybe as you say sell off some every now and then.

macuser · 2 Jan 2020 at 21:45

seanyc5 said:
Yeah index/ETF only SIPP coming soon. My plan was index/ETF for long term, then a portfolio of say 30 or so for dividend income (hopefully somewhat overlapping so its near monthly income, then re-invest the dividend). and maybe as you say sell off some every now and then.

Picking 30 individual stocks would freak me out a little. I'm all for 'spreading the risk' but that seems a bit extreme. Plenty of good Income Funds out there that will pay out monthly dividends and would give you greater access to US/Asia stocks without the hassle of buying US/Asia stocks.

seanyc5 · 3 Jan 2020 at 18:26

macuser said:
Picking 30 individual stocks would freak me out a little. I'm all for 'spreading the risk' but that seems a bit extreme. Plenty of good Income Funds out there that will pay out monthly dividends and would give you greater access to US/Asia stocks without the hassle of buying US/Asia stocks.

That sounds interesting, could you give me a few examples? The 30 or stocks would be just large bluechip companies that are in the index's any way you just get more dividends this way. Dividend Yield on S&P 500 VUSA Vanguard is pretty low compared to the yield of a lot of the main stocks in contains.

booyaka · 3 Jan 2020 at 19:23

Not to be taken as any form of recommendation and purely for information purposes for the thread - I manage clients SIPP/investments/ISA for them as an IFA.

Largest client I have has 20 funds across a large spread of sectors/geographical split and zero individual stock holdings. Individual stocks are for someone who has an awful lot of time on their hands and can study/digest/review/update on a daily/weekly basis.

Vanguard are solid, cheap option and I hold their lifestyle strategy and global balanced fund for part of portfolios for a lot of my clients. Along with other investment funds/eft's etc.

Lartyconshayo · 3 Jan 2020 at 19:58

With the given brexit uncertainty would you still recommend lifestrategy given their 25% UK weighting ? I have maxed out last year's ISA in LS100 but this tax year started the VWRL fund. This will be maxed out in April. At what point put bonds in the mix. When closer to retirement seems to be the prevailing wisdom

coolsurfer · 6 Jan 2020 at 23:46

Lartyconshayo said:
With the given brexit uncertainty would you still recommend lifestrategy given their 25% UK weighting ? I have maxed out last year's ISA in LS100 but this tax year started the VWRL fund. This will be maxed out in April. At what point put bonds in the mix. When closer to retirement seems to be the prevailing wisdom

You want to read JL Collins book “The Simple Path to Wealth” or google his website and read the articles for free. Also look up Lars Kroijer and “Investing Demystified”.

As for which fund - Vanguard FTSE Global All Cap is what you want. UK weighting is much more representative of the global stock market than LifeStrategy.

Lartyconshayo · 7 Jan 2020 at 12:09

coolsurfer said:
You want to read JL Collins book “The Simple Path to Wealth” or google his website and read the articles for free. Also look up Lars Kroijer and “Investing Demystified”.

As for which fund - Vanguard FTSE Global All Cap is what you want. UK weighting is much more representative of the global stock market than LifeStrategy.

Thanks. Yeah already in VWRL which is that fund for now. Guess stick with it then. I read the escape artist and I think he links to Lars on an article I read

Uther · 7 Jan 2020 at 15:09

Bit of news about Woodford and his partner, nice work if you can get it.
https://news.sky.com/story/13-8m-woodford-dividends-in-year-prior-to-collapse-11903040

dowie · 7 Jan 2020 at 16:52

Uther said:
Bit of news about Woodford and his partner, nice work if you can get it.
https://news.sky.com/story/13-8m-woodford-dividends-in-year-prior-to-collapse-11903040

Peanuts compared to hedge fund managers though - given the amount of capital they raised...

Unfortunately there are plenty of fund managers out there who aren't really going to add much value beyond just dumping money into a simple tracker. Worse, there are hedge fund types who are either very speculative or rather delusional - especially some of the discretionary types. Worse still there are some who must know that they're just picking up pennies in front of a bulldozer and will blow up at some point.

Plenty of scumbags, idiots out there along with the well intentioned but stupid and the well intentioned cocky/arrogant.