Transgender MTF picked for Olympics weightlifting

dave28 said:
Well if you allow it in one sport then you have to allow it in all sports.

I can see it now, Jamaca have new superstar runner in the Olympics.

Usain Bolt has come out of retirement to compete as a transgender.
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If Miss Bolt meets the governing bodies requirements/guidelines, it would be a glorious second career.
 
Looks like some guy from down the pub lol. Its a guy, anyone with any sense can see that. Its cheating, like doping and it will ruin womens sport.

Southpark nailed it:

 
plasmahal said:
Do you mean 'Fair'?

If so, Yes, she is recognised as a women regardless of you antiquated and bigoted views.

She meets the rules/guidelines laid down by the IOC and other Athletic bodies, which puts you in the wrong.
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Those rules are wrong and are based on poor/ incomplete scientific data and a wish to kowtow to the transgender 'inclusivity' movement that advocates for transgender inclusion by arguing that the process of transition decreases male advantage considerably and that physical differences between athletes mean there is never a truly level playing field.

This argument has recently been shown in a scientific study published in Sport Medicine to be completely untrue and that the decrease in advantage is in fact only moderate.

Dr Emma Hilton, a developmental biologist from the University of Manchester, was the co-author of the paper that was published in Sports Medicine. This research examined whether the IOC’s testosterone ruling would limit the male performance advantage and deliver fair and safe competition.

“The performance gap is more pronounced in sporting activities relying on muscle mass and explosive strength, particularly in the upper body,” said the study. “Longitudinal studies examining the effects of testosterone suppression on muscle mass and strength in transgender women consistently show very modest changes, where the loss of lean body mass, muscle area and strength typically amounts to approximately five per cent after 12 months of treatment. Thus, the muscular advantage enjoyed by transgender women is only minimally reduced when testosterone is suppressed.”
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Now the IOC can obviously only make the rules based on the best data available to them at the time. This data has now changed and in the spirit of fairness I would expect to see them change the rules to once again exclude transgender women from the natal women classes - especially in sports like power lifting where the differences are significant and not ignorable.
 
I feel bad for the women competing, but surely they will eventually form a collective boycott & demand trans are excluded from participating within the woman classification? Guess it depends when the balance between women's rights & trans rights tips sufficiently, so they're not immediately 'cancelled' for speaking out.
 
Chuk_Chuk said:
So a biological women was denied a silver medal and another one was kicked off the podium and denied the joy of being in the top 3. Got you.
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I'm not saying whether it's right or wrong, to be honest I don't think she should be allowed to compete since she had the advantage of training and competing as a man up to her 30s. It's some posters have got it in her head that she will turn up and throw up a 50kg heavier lift than the other competitors, Hubbard will be competitive but she's not massively in front of the rest.
 
Should only be allowed if they converted before puberty and even still there may be slight advantages. It's hilarious how people in the thread believe the IOC and other bodies are the be-all and end-all of this issue and there are no serious flaws in the science they are using.
 
Tom_ed1987 said:
I feel bad for the women competing, but surely they will eventually form a collective boycott & demand trans are excluded from participating within the woman classification? Guess it depends when the balance between women's rights & trans rights tips sufficiently, so they're not immediately 'cancelled' for speaking out.
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There's already been a few competitors speak out against it, I think your right that it will take a boycott from others for the rule to be reconsidered.
 
plasmahal said:
Maybe re-educate yourself.



Do you mean 'Fair'?

If so, Yes, she is recognised as a women regardless of you antiquated and bigoted views.

She meets the rules/guidelines laid down by the IOC and other Athletic bodies, which puts you in the wrong.



EN-IOC-Consensus-Meeting-on-Sex-Reassignment-and-Hyperandrogenism.pdf (olympics.com)
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Technically not really true, if "she" was lifting in feds as a woman before this the test levels would have been high enough to have her banned from any competition sports, their is a lot of rope being given here to allow them to compete.
WOudl be like saying to the other females " Hey take year off, run test non stop and GH for a year, then clear it out of you system a week before testing, and that's okay.
Also, seem to be falling back on technicalities all of a sudden, when for over the lat 2 decades IOC have stripped competitors for "not being in the spirit of the sport", and not based on any testing.
 
cu3ed said:
Technically not really true, if "she" was lifting in feds as a woman before this the test levels would have been high enough to have her banned from any competition sports, their is a lot of rope being given here to allow them to compete.
WOudl be like saying to the other females " Hey take year off, run test non stop and GH for a year, then clear it out of you system a week before testing, and that's okay.
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A lot of posters seem to be missing this point, the controversy around Hubbard isn't simply that she used to be a man. It's her background of lifting as a Male going into her transition.
 
To add, how can we make it fair so that white people have a chance of ever winning a medal again.

Its probably worth noting that a white woman also has no chance of winning a gold medal in the 100m, 200m etc
 
MikeTheNative said:
A lot of posters seem to be missing this point, the controversy around Hubbard isn't simply that she used to be a man. It's her background of lifting as a Male going into her transition.
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It's a fair point. Also, many are missing the point that the IOC set the rules and guidelines which would have been met and adhered to for her to be able to compete.

We may not like the rules/guidelines but we don't make them and we hope/trust they have been adhered to.
 
Cliff notes:

- A demonstration of how a completely unremarkable male lifter at national level (or was it even just regional level?) can jostle with international elites when competing against women.

- Hubbard is 43. No woman has ever competed at the Olympics in WL'ing past about 35 IIRC and even then most of the top 10 women are almost always in their 20's. Gold-medal favourite Li Wenwen is 21. This is Bobby Riggs stuff.

- Hubbard won't win gold because average male with age-related strength decline and sloppy technique does not quite overcome coming up against the most elite women with incredible technique. Li Wenwen of China, whose total greatly exceeds what Hubbard is capable of will not be troubled. Hubbard MIGHT medal 2nd or 3rd purely due to the absence of some other lifters due to various reasons.

- Worth noting the following: WL'ing is divided into 10 weight classes per sex, of which 7 are contested at Olympic level. On the women's side ONLY and ONLY the +87kg / weight-unlimited women lift more in the snatch and clean and jerk than the SMALLEST two male classes, 51kg and 61kg. That is, until the women are hitting massive scale weights (Li Wenwen is 148kg) they are ALL left in the dust by men and they themselves are left in the dust by men as soon as you hit the 67kg class and beyond.
 
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