Turkish Grand Prix 2011, Istanbul Park - Race 4/19

Soldato
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But you simply have to admit that in the Red Bull he has completely out performed everyone.

That's not too difficult when you know that your car is 0.5s-1s/lap faster than everybody else's car in qualifying and that the only car you really have to beat is your team-mate, who you have completely broken the previous season.

Right now the Vettel/RBR package is performing great, but things can change as the season progresses. We saw this happen last year with Ferrari and Alonso. As soon as Alonso hit top form, despite the RBR car being massively faster, he was able to outscore everybody else in the 2nd half of the season.
 
Caporegime
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And Hamilton outscored everyone in the second half of the 2009 season...

Didn't win him the Championship though, and didn't win Alonso it in 2010 either.
 
Soldato
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In 2010, Alonso only lost the title in the last race after the strategic debacle.
All I'm saying is that don't assume that Vettel has already won this year...there are plenty of races to go - McLaren are close and Ferrari had their best race of the season, 2 days ago.

RBR finally introduced KERS for the whole race and they didn't drive off into the distance (as some people expected).
 
Caporegime
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Has it been mentioned how wrong James Allen got his prediction for button?

Claiming he was racing for 2nd I think just after his 2nd stop. Good call there

Poor James Allen still getting the blame long after he's not in the pitlane anymore :D

Ted Kravitz wasn't it?

RBR finally introduced KERS for the whole race and they didn't drive off into the distance (as some people expected).

People need to get over this driving off in the distance as not being a sign they were dominant. There is no benefit to him putting an extra 10 seconds gap onto his followers. It takes too much out of the car, fuel and runs the risk of taking too much out of a set of tyres. They just peg the gap and hold it leaving plenty in the car and tyres to react if needed.

You mentioned Senna as being the master of strategy, well there was a 10th of the strategy in his day and far less variables to think about.

Schumacher and Brawn were the best there has ever been with strategy.

As for tyre wear it doesn't matter how soft you are on the tyres with these compounds it makes little difference. As Brundle said they don't blister up they just run for 12 laps etc then they fall off a cliff. The gains for being soft on tyres this year is so small it's not worth the effort. Just run and match everyone elses degredation and take the same amount of stops and benefit the new rubber because the loss from being on slightly overworn tyres for too long is far too big.

Whats the record for most wins in a season, I think Vettel might beat it this year.
 
Soldato
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People need to get over this driving off in the distance as not being a sign they were dominant. There is no benefit to him putting an extra 10 seconds gap onto his followers. It takes too much out of the car, fuel and runs the risk of taking too much out of a set of tyres. They just peg the gap and hold it leaving plenty in the car and tyres to react if needed.

If the RBR car was so dominant and so far ahead of the rest, why didn't Webber take 2nd place sooner? Why was he only able to do it in the dying laps of the race? Reason: the RBR car is fast, but its not so far ahead that the other cars have virtually no chance of a win or beating the RBR car.

Vettel is very good when he is leading for the entire race, but deny him the opportunity of leading on lap 1 and I think you will find he struggles to win from that position. It would be a very interesting statistic see just what percentage of his wins have come when he is not leading on lap 1. Perhaps someone can look into this?

You mentioned Senna as being the master of strategy, well there was a 10th of the strategy in his day and far less variables to think about.

I think we shall have to agree to disagree on this. I hardly ever remember Senna losing places on strategy but always remember him making gains. The best examples of strategy is in wet/damp/changing conditions races. Senna would almost always dominate these - not only because he was a fast wet weather driver, but also because his strategy was fantastic.

As for tyre wear it doesn't matter how soft you are on the tyres with these compounds it makes little difference.

If this is the case why have we heard in all 4 races, the pit wall saying to the driver, over the radio, "look after your tyres". This message is repeated umpteen times. If tyre wear/management is not important, nobody seems to have told this to the teams/engineers.

The fact is that teams believe that if a driver manages his tyres well, over the course of the entire race distance, the driver will complete the race in the shortest time possible. Tyre management is still, very important. Just because Button is unable to manage his tyres significantly better than other drivers does not mean that this is not the case.
 
Man of Honour
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People need to get over this driving off in the distance as not being a sign they were dominant. There is no benefit to him putting an extra 10 seconds gap onto his followers. It takes too much out of the car, fuel and runs the risk of taking too much out of a set of tyres. They just peg the gap and hold it leaving plenty in the car and tyres to react if needed.

Agreed, they have plenty left in the race, they have shown their pace in quali. Plus kers still isn't working coorectly.

Vettel is very good when he is leading for the entire race, but deny him the opportunity of leading on lap 1 and I think you will find he struggles to win from that position. It would be a very interesting statistic see just what percentage of his wins have come when he is not leading on lap 1. Perhaps someone can look into this?

Depends how you look at it - he is a completely different driver this year. You are labelling him based on last season, and really only the first 3/4 of it.
 

Deleted member 651465

D

Deleted member 651465

13 by Schumacher in 2004

I don't think he'll beat that, personally.

Wikipedia said:
In 2001... Schumacher broke his own record, shared with Nigel Mansell, of nine race wins in a season, by winning eleven times and finishing every race on the podium. He finished with 144 points, a record-breaking 67 points ahead of the runner-up, his teammate Rubens Barrichello. This pair finished 9 of the 17 races in the first two places.

Could Vettel also beat this record too? :eek:
 
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Man of Honour
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I'm slacking

unledtfl.jpg


Race - Vettel reigns supreme for Red Bull in Turkey#
The only problem Sebastian Vettel had on his four-stopping way to victory number three of 2011 in Turkey on Sunday afternoon came as he went into the 57th and penultimate lap and had to lap the duelling Sergio Perez and Adrian Sutil in the last corner. Otherwise, he made it look easy, leading virtually throughout after making a great start.


Iplayer - The Turkish Grand Prix
Jake Humphrey presents coverage of the Turkish Grand Prix, the fourth race of the 2011 Formula 1 season. With commentary from Martin Brundle and David Coulthard.

Iplayer - The Turkish Grand Prix - Highlights
Jake Humphrey introduces highlights of the Turkish Grand Prix. It was a one-two for McLaren in 2010, with Lewis Hamilton leading home fellow British driver Jenson Button.

Formula 1 highlights - Turkish Grand Prix
Sebastian Vettel leads a Red Bull one-two ahead of team-mate Mark Webber and Ferrari's Fernando Alonso at the Turkish Grand Prix.

Turkish Grand Prix in 90 seconds
Watch short highlights from an action-packed Turkish Grand Prix as Sebastian Vettel leads home Red Bull team-mate Mark Webber in Istanbul.

Turkish Grand Prix - Top three drivers
Sebastian Vettel, Mark Webber and Fernando Alonso give their thoughts on an enthralling Turkish Grand Prix.

Lewis Hamilton and Felipe Massa race in pit lane
Having trailed his Ferrari rival heading into the pits, McLaren's Lewis Hamilton just beats Felipe Massa out as the two drivers nearly collide.

FIA post-race press conference - Turkey
Drivers: 1 - Sebastian Vettel (Red Bull Racing); 2 - Mark Webber (Red Bull Racing); 3 - Fernando Alonso (Ferrari).

Turkish Grand Prix - selected team & driver quotes
Virgin's Timo Glock on the last-minute gearbox problems which stopped him racing; Ferrari's Felipe Massa and McLaren's Lewis Hamilton on their problematic pit stops; McLaren's Jenson Button and Toro Rosso's Sebastien Buemi on their three-stop strategy; Fernando Alonso on taking his first podium of the year; and Red Bull's Sebastian Vettel on stepping back on the winner's step of the podium. The drivers review their Sundays at Istanbul Park...
 
Caporegime
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Could Vettel also beat this record too? :eek:

possibly if red bull can remain dominant, in percentage terms i think he would need to win 14-15 of the races now the F1 season is longer.

some of schumachers records even with more finishing places getting points and the front positions getting many more points and with the long F1 dseasons we have now are still going to be hard to equal or beat though it shows just how dominant schumacher was for much of his career.

i cant imagine seeing anyone that dominant again in my lifetime , i doubt newey will stick around long enough for vettel to do it
 
Caporegime
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In 2010, Alonso only lost the title in the last race after the strategic debacle.
All I'm saying is that don't assume that Vettel has already won this year...there are plenty of races to go - McLaren are close and Ferrari had their best race of the season, 2 days ago.

Alonso only really had a shot at the title because Vettel's start to the season was horrendous reliability-wise, no such misfortune for Vettel so far this season and even better for him is that Webber looks like he's been told not to rock the boat.
 
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Man of Honour
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RBR really are opening a big gap in the championship already, and with all the drivers and teams behind taking points off each other they are in a great position now.
 
Man of Honour
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RBR really are opening a big gap in the championship already, and with all the drivers and teams behind taking points off each other they are in a great position now.

Totally agrEe. Although the season isn't over by a long shot. Not only has Vettle put himself in the best position. Webber is helping him by not taking points away, and Ferrari have now caught up with mclaren, who are also fighting each other as well as Ferrari.
 
Soldato
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... Ferrari have now caught up with mclaren, ...

I'm not quite sure about that.
Alonso drove well, but qualified behind the 2 McLarens. Also, don't forget about Massa - he showed just how slow (in his hands) the Ferrari can be.

Alonso drove a very strong race in Turkey which accounted for him finishing 3rd.

Lets just wait and see what happens in the next race...I fancy that McLaren will close the gap on RBR as the season progresses. I strongly believe this.

Webber should also run into some good form at some point in the season, so expect him to deny Vettel for at least 2-3 races.

Also bear in mind that strategy is now playing a big part of race results, so just because you have the fastest car, winning is not a sure thing.
 
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