Well if someone is self-employed there is nothing stopping them from taking holidays - if they're running a ltd company then they can carry on paying themselves the same salary as holiday pay etc..
Uber lose battle in Supreme Court on drivers right
- Thread starter Bald-Eagle22
- Start date
Well if someone is self-employed there is nothing stopping them from taking holidays - if they're running a ltd company then they can carry on paying themselves the same salary as holiday pay etc..
Are you self-employed? If so then you are your employer.
You should be making financial provisions from your jobs to cover the period of the holiday you want to pay yourself during.
That's because they are rejecting rides whilst clocked on.
I can't agree to be a contractor and then reject the work being given to me. They driver could always switch off.
A self employed tradesperson can't agree to a piece of work and only do half the work that was asked of them because they didn't like those parts. They should have rejected the entire job. That is basically the equivalent to which uber is enforcing.
Uber do not require you to work specific hours or days. Nor are you allowed to abuse their platform, stay logged in and wait for lucrative fares. You can't do that in any private hire job.
I'm not saying the judgement is wrong. The law is what it is. However, the above measure for self-employed versus employed means most self employed jobs aren't now that. Black cabs for example can't reject fares. All employees of TFL now.
The majority of people who choose to be self employed because they like those benefits will now have to suffer because some people took on self-employment jobs and now sue for employment rights and compensation afterwards. Saying those people are stupid and you know what's best for them is an absurd argument.
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No I mean the rides cost massively more than a pre bill like uber or other non black cab services, it even keeps going up when stopped at lights. I dont know if its exactly triple, but its basically much much more. (your second example).
In 2008 the same year I moved to my current address I got a black cab from the city centre to my address and it cost me £13 something, in 2020 same journey in uber cost £4 something.
I dont have a personal dislike for black cab drivers, I just think they not competitive.
TfL don’t have any part in the transaction though, they set the rules but the transaction happens entirely between driver and passenger Uber controls the rules and critically takes part in every single transaction as they match the driver and passenger. That is the difference between an authority and a taxi company!
Quite interesting to see people here who appear to make extensive use of taxis in their daily lives.
So much so that Uber fares increasing will be a real blow.
Can't even remember the last time I ordered a taxi. Is this a London/big city thing?
So much so that Uber fares increasing will be a real blow.
Can't even remember the last time I ordered a taxi. Is this a London/big city thing?
Re the meter still going up when stationary, here’s the reason why, sanctioned by TFL.
Every X amount of seconds when stationary, 20p goes on the meter.
I totally accept that you have no personal animosity toward Black Cab drivers, and no, they’re not competitive, but remember that their overheads far, far, exceed those of a minicab or Uber driver, but I stress, ultimately you have the whip hand, you’re the customer, whichever service you opt for is your choice.
Tariff 1
For any hiring during Monday to Friday between 05:00 and 20:00, other than on a public holiday:
- For the first 227 metres or 48.8 seconds (whichever is reached first) there is a minimum charge of £3.20
- For each additional 113.5 metres or 24.4 seconds (whichever is reached first), or part thereof, if the distance travelled is less than 9647.5 metres there is a charge of 20p
- Once the distance has reached 9647.5 metres then there is a charge of 20p for each additional 86.9 metres or 18.7 seconds (whichever is reached first), or part thereof
For any hiring either during Monday to Friday between 20:00 and 22:00 or during Saturday or Sunday between 05:00 and 22:00, other than on a public holiday:
- For the first 184.8 metres or 39.8 seconds (whichever is reached first) there is a minimum charge of £3.20
- For each additional 92.4 metres or 19.9 seconds (whichever is reached first), or part thereof, the distance travelled is less than 9609.6 metres there is a charge of 20p
- Once the distance has reached 9609.6 metres then there is a charge of 20p for each additional 86.9 metres or 18.7 seconds (whichever is reached first), or part thereof
For any hiring between 22:00 on any day and 05:00 the following day or at any time on a public holiday:
- For the first 162.4 metres or 35 seconds (whichever is reached first) there is a minimum charge of £3.00
- For each additional 81.2 metres or 17.5 seconds (whichever is reached first), or part thereof, the distance travelled is less than 9,581.6 metres there is a charge of 20p
Quite interesting to see people here who appear to make extensive use of taxis in their daily lives.
So much so that Uber fares increasing will be a real blow.
Can't even remember the last time I ordered a taxi. Is this a London/big city thing?
I think some of us always used them due to disability or not been able to make journeys due to lack of car or convenient bus routes. However Uber also seem to have exploded the industry and I expect in recent year's use of taxis has skyrocketed as a result.
Pre covid, I would use them a fair bit when travelling for work if I travelled by rail or air. Outside of London I was always happy when Uber were available, much easier than trying to identify a good local cab firm.
Never had any real problems with Uber, or with black cabs once tfl got tough on the 'card machine is broke' drivers.
Given that tfl, through regulation, enables black cabs to operate like a cartel in London already, they shouldn't be given any more preferential treatment.
Having looked at the judgement and some of the wider analysis, I'm not entirely sure why everyone is getting so excited. Nothing is going to change in the short term and for any change to stick the law needs to be changed. Firms 'engaging contractors' can just modify their terms and conditions to get around it, at little cost to them. The 'contractors' can't do anything about it if they want to continue getting the work.
If you read Ubers statement, (which I'm inclined to give stock to) it's their view judgement is likely to only impact the few people who bought the case and it reflects their time on the service only. Uber says it has changed the arrangements with its drivers since so this case may not actually be binding and I don't think there is nothing from stopping them changing them further to make it further irrelevant.
The ruling also fails to take into account how the market has changed over the last few years, particularly with drivers drive for 3 or 4 apps at once. I think what this does do though is show that there are serious issues with employment law in the UK, the definition of a 'worker' is different in different bits of legislation. It's old, clunky and no longer fit for purpose in the modern world.
There are so many 'self employed contractors' with far less control than Uber. Look at the big courier firms for example, you 'buy a franchise' for £400 and you are then forced to rent one of their vans, wear their uniform, use their equipment, turn up when they say so, deliver when, where and how they say to. They give you training to do the job effectively, other than having to pay for access to the work, it sounds awfully like an employer-employee relationship. You literally have zero control.
If you read Ubers statement, (which I'm inclined to give stock to) it's their view judgement is likely to only impact the few people who bought the case and it reflects their time on the service only. Uber says it has changed the arrangements with its drivers since so this case may not actually be binding and I don't think there is nothing from stopping them changing them further to make it further irrelevant.
The ruling also fails to take into account how the market has changed over the last few years, particularly with drivers drive for 3 or 4 apps at once. I think what this does do though is show that there are serious issues with employment law in the UK, the definition of a 'worker' is different in different bits of legislation. It's old, clunky and no longer fit for purpose in the modern world.
There are so many 'self employed contractors' with far less control than Uber. Look at the big courier firms for example, you 'buy a franchise' for £400 and you are then forced to rent one of their vans, wear their uniform, use their equipment, turn up when they say so, deliver when, where and how they say to. They give you training to do the job effectively, other than having to pay for access to the work, it sounds awfully like an employer-employee relationship. You literally have zero control.
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Cartel or not TFL are clearly a regulating authority and not a passenger transport company as far as black cabs go.
I think it is too early to say with any certainty which way this will go, the analysis is full of if’s and buts. I’m hardly surprised Uber are playing it down they were hardly going to roll over and change the business model they operate on! One thing Uber do have in their favour is our current government who may well legislate them out of the whole they are in.
At one point last Summer I was spending between £300-£400 a month on Uber/BoltQuite interesting to see people here who appear to make extensive use of taxis in their daily lives.
So much so that Uber fares increasing will be a real blow.
Can't even remember the last time I ordered a taxi. Is this a London/big city thing?
I think the main reason was a promotion at work that came with a 25% pay rise so I wasn't keeping track of my spending too much. Only realised a few months later when I added it all up from my statement.Since then it's never more than £30-£40 a month, and planning to keep it like that.
Depends who offers a suitable donation to the party or a job to one of the old boys club that currently runs the country. Uber are not going to want to change there operating model, there success is built entirely on being cheap so expect underhand shenanigans!
Quite interesting to see people here who appear to make extensive use of taxis in their daily lives.
So much so that Uber fares increasing will be a real blow.
Can't even remember the last time I ordered a taxi. Is this a London/big city thing?
When ever I drive into London I find a good parking space and then Uber to my hotel. Sometimes, not often, the tube doesn’t cut it and it’s either walk, bus or do some weird tube hopping. Uber normally wins out over laziness.
At one point last Summer I was spending between £300-£400 a month on Uber/Bolt
Since then it's never more than £30-£40 a month, and planning to keep it like that.
What were you doing that you were managing to spend that much unnecessarily?! Getting Uber’s for fun?!
Which goes to demonstrate that the current laws and regulations and they way they interact are unfit for purpose and being exploited at the expense of the end user and in need of fundamental reform.
So you prefer the Uber model of exploiting the low skilled?
For me both models are pretty hideous in the modern world, we no longer need the protectionism of the black cab setup but similarly chucking it in the bin and replacing it with exploitative nonsense like Uber is not a good thing either reform is needed. Sadly one of our political parties is wedded to the traditional black cab setup while the other is in the pocket of big business so we will probably end up with the worst of both worlds.
It's not a dichotomy.
We need a new approach to what work is and what it means that works to respect both those who want consistency and rigidity and those who want flexibility, without excessive protectionism or raising the bar of access to earning too high.