Uber lose battle in Supreme Court on drivers right

[Deleted User 234324]

What they mean and a lot of guys are missing this is the Gigg economy is not taxed at source . If your company’s to make workers employees ( as this will ) tax is paid at source and the government get a nice big fat increase in the tax take . It will probably run like the builders pay tax I think , expenses submitted , forgot what form they submitted .

I have my suspicions this ruling was delayed until after our exit from the EU and designed closely with the treasury.

The other point now though is if you want cabs at the flick of an app , pizza at the click of an app or your Amazon delivery the next day then the cost just doubled , maybe even more .

You'd be amazed at just how much people are willing to pay for being lazy.

I've seen people pay £6-7 for delivery when their order was under £5. Uber Eats from work are rarely above £10 yet pay nearly as much to have it delivered within an hour. Guess there must be an abundance of pot smokers with the munchies in the area.

 

[Bald-Eagle22]

The ruling doesn't make them employees, it makes them "workers" which is different.

Your right but it’s called Employed Status . It effectively gives them workers rights , holiday pay and sick pay - but guess who paying for it - won’t be Uber , Amazon or Just eats it will be you the consumer .

 

[Bald-Eagle22]

You'd be amazed at just how much people are willing to pay for being lazy.

I've seen people pay £6-7 for delivery when their order was under £5. Uber Eats from work are rarely above £10 yet pay nearly as much to have it delivered within an hour. Guess there must be an abundance of pot smokers with the munchies in the area.

Lol , yes I’ve seen it working shifts in the office - it’s terrible . That being said it cost a lot of money to pay holiday and sick pay .

 

[muon]

Black cab drivers might now be employed by Tfl. Tfl set the rules, the price, the marketing, licence and manage them and provide them with customers. Just not via an app.

Not sure black cab drivers will like the can of worms they've opened.

 

[A2Z]

some drivers switch between uber and competitors, turn both apps on towards the end of a job and see whether they pick up a job after that etc.. Will this ruling remove part of the flexibility?

Can only hope so. I've lost count how many times I have got a driver, only to watch them on the map and see them drive off in the complete opposite direction of where I am, dropping someone else off using another app. That's the worst thing about these apps.

These drivers think we are just going to wait around until they finish doing whatever they are doing. They should only accept a job if they are ready to go to the meeting point at that exact moment. People are paying a premium to get transported somewhere for a reason, because they need/want to get there fast, not wait around unnecessarily.

 

[LeeUK]

Uber is rubbish. Half the time the drivers message you via the app asking where you are wanting to go, and if they don't want to go there they will just cancel on you. Least with the local respected taxi companies they always turn up.

 

[a1ex2001]

Black cab drivers might now be employed by Tfl. Tfl set the rules, the price, the marketing, licence and manage them and provide them with customers. Just not via an app.

Not sure black cab drivers will like the can of worms they've opened.

Don’t think this will happen TFL are clearly a licensing authority and have no involvement in the customer bit, you can’t call TFL and book black cab.

 

[muon]

Don’t think this will happen TFL are clearly a licensing authority and have no involvement in the customer bit, you can’t call TFL and book black cab.

The hail and ride authority comes from TFL.

Just because it isn't done via the phone or an app doesn't remove where that relationship comes from. It is monitored and regulated by TFL.

It's clearly against the spirit of the ruing even if there is a loophole.

Some black cabs also use apps.

 

[Eurofighter]

I think this is good news. All these gig economy jobs do nothing more than exploit most people.

 

[muon]

I think this is good news. All these gig economy jobs do nothing more than exploit most people.

Apart from giving people who generally have very few skills, a job rather than just living solely on benefits.

'Exploit most people'. Care to back that up?

 

[LeeUK]

Apart from giving people who generally have very few skills, a job rather than just living solely on benefits.

'Exploit most people'. Care to back that up?

It's not really a job though is it.

 

[muon]

It's not really a job though is it.

Self employed people don't have a job?

 

[Jean-F]

Black cab drivers might now be employed by Tfl. Tfl set the rules, the price, the marketing, licence and manage them and provide them with customers. Just not via an app.

Not sure black cab drivers will like the can of worms they've opened.

Can’t see that happening, although of course anything is possible.
TFL set the rules, TFL fix the fare structure, and regulate and check the meter, TFL grants the licence for both the taxi and the driver to operate on the streets of the capital, and that’s it.
When I first contemplated doing “The Knowledge” years ago, there were two criteria that attracted me to the job.
First and foremost, and anyone saying otherwise is second guessing themselves, was the undeniable fact that at that time, it was the nearest thing to printing money that was legal.
Second of all was the fact that I could work when I wanted to, for as long or short a time as I liked, and if I didn’t want to work, then I could stay at home, no one was going to get on my case, I was the boss of me.
Finally, I thought that it was Uber drivers themselves that instigated this “class us as employed workers” thing, although Black Cab drivers would vote for anything that might strangle Uber.
I handed my badge and licences back in 2012, but if I need to get somewhere quick in London, I only use Black Cabs.

 

[Dolph]

The hail and ride authority comes from TFL.

Just because it isn't done via the phone or an app doesn't remove where that relationship comes from. It is monitored and regulated by TFL.

It's clearly against the spirit of the ruing even if there is a loophole.

Some black cabs also use apps.

Tfl also dictate fares, standards, acceptable car types etc to their drivers.

https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/taxis-and-minicabs/taxi-fares#on-this-page-1

Looks at fares, for example. London cabbies can't reject a fare unless for very specific reasons.

Tfl actually have far more control over cabbies than Uber do.

 

[Em3bbs]

Uber is rubbish. Half the time the drivers message you via the app asking where you are wanting to go, and if they don't want to go there they will just cancel on you. Least with the local respected taxi companies they always turn up.

Weird, I have hundreds of Uber journeys and in different countries but have never had that once.

Had the 'local respected taxi companies' take much longer than they'll say many times though. I'm glad I don't have to hear "Yeah mate, he's 5 minutes away" while I wait another 20 minutes ever again.

 

[muon]

Second of all was the fact that I could work when I wanted to, for as long or short a time as I liked, and if I didn’t want to work, then I could stay at home, no one was going to get on my case, I was the boss of me.
Finally, I thought that it was Uber drivers themselves that instigated this “class us as employed workers” thing, although Black Cab drivers would vote for anything that might strangle Uber.
I handed my badge and licences back in 2012, but if I need to get somewhere quick in London, I only use Black Cabs.

And I suspect that is true for most uber drivers.

You are right black cabs didn't have anything to do with the suit, but they definitely feel its a win and that they feel vindicated that uber are breaking the law which they've been claiming all along. There is even a class action claiming lost earnings that is happening at the moment.

If you read comments with these articles you'll often get the impression that only they are allowed to be self employed. Everyone else is dodging tax and operating illegally. Yet 99% of uber payments have always been digital and trackable. How long did it take black cabs to accept non-cash payments and why?

 

[chrcoluk]

Not sure what to think here, the way I have always looked at uber is it is a platform that self employed drivers can use to gain work.

If this changes to a platform where uber effectively becomes one big taxi company which actually employs drivers directly, I can see them kind of trending to a normal taxi firm type service which will likely for starters crate a shortage of drivers as contracted work is two way deal, yes you can get sick pay etc. but then you also have to work contracted hours and adhere to company policies.

So I see a combination of large price rises to pay for all this and shortage of drivers. It also wouldnt surprise me if uber also reduces the areas it operates in concentrating on the most lucrative areas only.

 

[muon]

@chrcoluk

Most normal taxi firms also use self employed drivers.

Private hire vehicle services are especially suited to self employed workers. That is why almost the entire industry is set up that way.

 

[LeeUK]

Weird, I have hundreds of Uber journeys and in different countries but have never had that once.

Had the 'local respected taxi companies' take much longer than they'll say many times though. I'm glad I don't have to hear "Yeah mate, he's 5 minutes away" while I wait another 20 minutes ever again.

There only seems to be one or two Uber drivers in my area and I think they only want big jobs. Local firm has an App too and every time I book via the App they always arrive when it says they will.

 

[chrcoluk]

Uber is rubbish. Half the time the drivers message you via the app asking where you are wanting to go, and if they don't want to go there they will just cancel on you. Least with the local respected taxi companies they always turn up.

Never had that happen to me, on the whole the service is night and day above traditional taxi firm offerings.

Experience before uber.

"Hi want to book taxi please"
"sorry we all booked up"

or

"Hi I want to book taxi please"
"yeah sure 5pm booked"
at 5.15pm
"hi where is my taxi"
"its on the way mate just round the corner"
at 5.30pm
"hi where is my taxi"
"almost there mate"
at 5.40pm taxi turns up.

With uber, I have never been refused a taxi, always one available on demand, I can track how near they are when coming to me, and I dont even have the hassle of making a phone call or paying in cash. Its light years ahead, and caught out legacy taxi services. Kind of like how the UK retail industry failed to react to amazon and now has mass closures.

Also dont get me started on black cabs, they charge literally triple the normal rate on their meters inside the vehicle.