UEFA Champions League/Europa League 23/24/25 October *** Spoilers ***

Like Maureen :o:p

The guy who has won European titles? :o:p

re; Zonal v Man marking, like I said, I view it as courses for horses, both have advantages and disadvantages.

Man marking is still prolific in England because English football is incredibly slow to adapt to change.
 
lol is that his new nickname or a typo?

It has always been his nickname; it used to be serious now it is ironic because he is awesome and having seen that performance from Santos, Benoit is worth £10000000000.

Also after THAT Gervinho dive, Arsenal deserve to lose. It was worse than Suarez!
 
Cant see why you cant combine zonal marking and man marking key attackers. If a team has a player like Vidic or Kompany who are beasts in the air it has to be prudent to put a big center half on them, so that they dont get a run on a tiny winger just marking space from a corner.
 
I havent seen the match so wont comment on the performance, but doesnt everyrhing change when wilshere is back?

Midfield 3 of wilshere, carzola and arteta. Forward 3 of podolski, giroud, ox/walcott. That lineup worries me. It is like looking at spurs lose on the weekend without Bale, Kaboul and A&E; needs perspective.

Not really no, Walcott IS rubbish, Giroud hasn't done anything yet to suggest he's even particularly good let alone great and Ox, promising but ultimately he looked at his best in his first 3-4 games for Arsenal, a year ago, he moves a lot and doesn't get a whole lot of stuff done. However he looks promising, while Walcott looks terrible each and every game, even when he scores the rest of his game is terrible, Ox looks like he could be a couple better decisions and a bit of luck from being really good, time will tell.

Which means ultimately of the players you listed, the only quality player to come back is Wilshire, and he most certainly can make a difference, but he won't fix the defence, be a left back, be a great striker, or a great winger, which is where we currently have the problems. Central midfield has the most depth and the most capability probably, Wilshire is without question an improvement on the rest, by a huge margin, but its the smallest problem to be fixed in the team.

Lastly there is one problem, we have no idea how Wilshire will hold up, or come back in terms of quality, hope for the best but.... players don't always come back as good as they were.
 
Cant see why you cant combine zonal marking and man marking key attackers. If a team has a player like Vidic or Kompany who are beasts in the air it has to be prudent to put a big center half on them, so that they dont get a run on a tiny winger just marking space from a corner.

Of course that happens, have you ever watched football :confused:
 
Listening to SKY all the time these experts say zonal marking is crap , players get run on them etc etc.

Obviously they must be an advantage of zonal marking , any footie gurus care to explain?

You need to communicate when you mark zonally, no one seems to do that in football though.

And you're marking a zone, that zone is your zone and no one else, you can't rely on your team mates in helping you out, it's your responsibility. If it's a opposition player or a football in your zone you need to get rid of it. If a player moves out of that zone you have to pass him on to your team mate or at least communicate.

Zonal marking is the best form of defending set pieces imo, but that's only if you have the players that understand why they are doing it and what they have to do it in.

City tonight, and as was seen the other week their players just don't have a clue what they're meant to be doing, so they stand there looking like lemons.
 
Ox is young and i agree he is overrated but flicking betwen walcott and ox should be sufficient. I think Giroud is more like an Adebyor than an RVP but when you have the aforementioned players running off him or playing off him there should be goals in the team.

The problem at the moment is that there are too many utter gash players in the arsenal team. They are not even mediocre like a dempsey or a siggurdsen they are actually detrimental i.e. gervinho, santos, mertesacker,
 
zonal marking cracks me up. When you see teams doing it and then concede a goal it looks so funny. All the defenders stood marking their spot, all the attackers outside of this area and are basically left to mind their own business. BANG cross comes in players run in, on the end of it, goal, thank you very much. To me it seems a really strange idea and not sure why it gets used so much? Player running with momentum vs one stood still, who wins?
 
Is that a serious answer?

After looking at Madrids defending I don't think I like continental ideas either:p

So apart from not running into each other what advantages are there over the he's your man and don't lose him method ?

Not running into players is a glib form of a serious answer. Zonal can work better against certain teams that either have several fast players and guys who like to back up and all run in different directions across the box. You frequently see teams gather together 3-4 players and run across a box with 2-3 trying to block the defence and let one get free. Zonal can avoid players getting blocked as its more about picking up the attacker when he gets where he's going, rather than stick with him from where he starts.

Neither is better, either done badly, sucks, either done well, can be great. Zonal is particularly weak when you have hugely different quality across the defence. If you have a 6'8 defender zonal marking at the near post, and a 5'10 CB at the far post... where would a decent team focus their players, overload the back post and improve your odds massively.

Some teams(City when they are good and Richards is playing) have so many threats its hard to pick out 2 and put your best guys on theirs, other teams have only 1-2 guys likely to win headers, how you attack them is basically a toss up.

Teams don't win or lose games based on picking zonal or man marking, peeing around with the team for no good reason because you're desparate to look for a new plan because you know there is huge pressure on you to do well in Europe. Mancini is crumbling, he's messing with the entire team, its put every last players form way below where it should be, the best CB in the league last year looks no where near as good, the best CB partnership looks disjointed, and the central midfield looks no where near as good.

One of two likely possibilities, despite a long term contract he knows he'll be replaced if he doesn't improve in Europe drastically, or, he got a long term contract and realises he can get the same money end of this season as working for the next few as he'll get the pay off either way.... all the money, 2 years less work and stress ;)
 
Man marking can look equally hilarious if players don't stay with their runner.

Man marking is easier to explain to stupid footballers imho though :p
 
Right now Eriksen, Cazorla, Hazard, Oscar probably even keeping Park all look like better pieces of business than signing Kagawa :(

Mentioning players that were twice the price of the comparison doesnt help anyone.

Kagawa has done ok so far, and Im sure he will get even better
 
zonal marking cracks me up. When you see teams doing it and then concede a goal it looks so funny. All the defenders stood marking their spot, all the attackers outside of this area and are basically left to mind their own business. BANG cross comes in players run in, on the end of it, goal, thank you very much. To me it seems a really strange idea and not sure why it gets used so much? Player running with momentum vs one stood still, who wins?


Exactly because they've no idea why or what they are doing. If they actually attacked the ball they wouldn't look stupid, if plays communicated to each other where runners where going, they'd be able to beat the opposition to the ball.
 
Mentioning players that were twice the price of the comparison doesnt help anyone.

Kagawa has done ok so far, and Im sure he will get even better

Yep. Some players need time to adjust on and off the pitch :)

Evra and Vidic didn't come in and instantly be amazing iirc.

Little knee jerk from certain Manchester United fans who clearly were under some impression that Kagawa was the second coming of the footballing god.
 
Ox is young and i agree he is overrated but flicking betwen walcott and ox should be sufficient. I think Giroud is more like an Adebyor than an RVP but when you have the aforementioned players running off him or playing off him there should be goals in the team.

The problem at the moment is that there are too many utter gash players in the arsenal team. They are not even mediocre like a dempsey or a siggurdsen they are actually detrimental i.e. gervinho, santos, mertesacker,

Yes, detrimental players, been saying this for years, any team can put up with one, even two guys playing crap, when you start getting 3-4 all ruining every attack or screwing up every defensive play... you suck. Arsenal have too many of them, however flicking between Walcott and Ox isn't sufficient. Walcott simply isn't good enough, he can't be relied on in big games at all, and barely in small games. He might nick a goal, but he'll be such little threat throughout a game, so weak, concede position and do so little defensively that a goal isn't enough, you need to dominate big teams to win. Barca will take 70+% posession and sneak a 1-0 eventually just as often as they thrash small teams. Its guys like Walcott who prevent you keeping the ball off the opposition.

Walcott simply isn't and won't ever be good enough, he needs to go, ox may eventually be good enough, he isn't now, he has as many poor games as promising games, even in most of those he doesn't quite do enough... yet. Either we stick with Ox, or rotate Ox and someone else(arshavin or a new winger is fine), Walcott won't ever be good enough.

Giroud could be good enough but, with guys like Walcott, he's lazy and stupid, Giroud could win a header, knock it down, Walcott will be walking near the half way line because he assumed he wouldn't get an easy chance so hasn't even bothered. Santi so far hasn't really followed up into the box enough so far, we need more midfield running late into the box "Lampard" style running from him, FAR too much shooting from 30 yards and mostly being not close.

Ramsey's movement is good, he runs into the box, but his shooting is horrendous, no composure when he blasts it. The one goal he chipped it, rather than "shot" it, when he shoots the crowd needs to duck for cover.

Arsenal's problem is, Wenger thinks Walcott is good enough, that Gervinho is great, that Gibbs/Santos are good enough, that Diaby is great, etc, etc. Its his inability to get rid of the dead wood, or even recognise players who aren't good enough that has hurt us for years. Arshavin is 10 times the player Walcott is, 10 goals, 18 assists, last full season... arbitrarily dropped and insta hate from the fans.
 
Kagawa has done ok so far, and Im sure he will get even better

Saying he's done ok is being kind, being sure he'll get better is the very least we should expect. So far I haven't been impressed at all to the point where it feels like we're playing with 10 men when he's on the pitch. It's probably not entirely his fault, Fergie should have spotted he was struggling and put him on the sidelines weeks ago as I'm sure it's at the point now where his confidence is just shot to pieces
 
I think he's been ok, he's been in and out of the team and his position has switched several times, it can't be easy coming to a new league and being jostled around like that. He's scored some and set up some (his assists for Carrick and Hernandez last night were both good) so it's not like he's done nothing.
 
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