UEFA Champions League/Europa League 23/24/25 October *** Spoilers ***

[Tom84]

Little knee jerk from certain Manchester United fans who clearly were under some impression that Kagawa was the second coming of the footballing god.

If that's aimed at me I didn't expect anything because I knew nothing of him, you were certainly talking him up in the summer though

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=22657256&postcount=8898

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=22657510&postcount=8930

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=22657583&postcount=8944

I think he's been ok, he's been in and out of the team and his position has switched several times, it can't be easy coming to a new league and being jostled around like that. He's scored some and set up some (his assists for Carrick and Hernandez last night were both good) so it's not like he's done nothing.

Yeah to give the lad some credit is final ball in the box at times has been quite 'deft', it's just the rest of his game I've had a problem with

 

[FrankJH]

I think he's been ok, he's been in and out of the team and his position has switched several times, it can't be easy coming to a new league and being jostled around like that. He's scored some and set up some (his assists for Carrick and Hernandez last night were both good) so it's not like he's done nothing.

Exactly

I guess Tom expects brilliance immediately for £14m (when even £50m players take time to settle in new teams......)

Saying he's done ok is being kind, being sure he'll get better is the very least we should expect. So far I haven't been impressed at all to the point where it feels like we're playing with 10 men when he's on the pitch. It's probably not entirely his fault, Fergie should have spotted he was struggling and put him on the sidelines weeks ago as I'm sure it's at the point now where his confidence is just shot to pieces

And yet you look at him first, and not those players who have been around awhile and havent been performing at the same time (like Nani for example, who has been invisible when he has played - until last night at least).

Actually to be fair majority of the team havent played well for any whole match you care to mention this season - so I just think thats a pretty ridiculous thing to aim at the new guy on his own.

 

[Newbie007]

Listening to SKY all the time these experts say zonal marking is crap , players get run on them etc etc.

Obviously they must be an advantage of zonal marking , any footie gurus care to explain?

Liverpool, under Rafa, played Zonal marking and had the best defensive record (well, Pepe won the golden gloves) 3 seasons out of the 5 he was here.

I would just ignore Sky's 'pundits' if I were you, their discussions about Zonal marking back then summed them up. Think it was half time in a Liverpool - Everton game and Tim Cahill had scored a header from a corner. Redknapp and Souness were harking on about how zonal was rubbish and then showed how Cahill had scored 9 or 10 other goals from set pieces that season....all against teams using man 2 man. Couldn't make it up.

Basically, the majority of 'foreign' teams use Zonal, and they are pretty successful aren't they

 

[BaZ87]

Listening to SKY all the time these experts say zonal marking is crap , players get run on them etc etc.

Obviously they must be an advantage of zonal marking , any footie gurus care to explain?

Rightly or wrongly, I believe (according to Gordon Strachan anyway) that stats wise zonal marking is better than man to man marking.

The idea of zonal marking is that you've got your best players in the air in the key areas (usually in a line along the 6 yard box). You then have a few players ahead of them that basically act as blockers to stop runs in towards the 6 yard box. Despite Andy Gray (and ratboy today) banging on about "standing jump vs a running jump", the defenders are supposed to go and attack the ball as it's coming into their zone.

Done properly, attackers aren't getting free runs or an unchallenged header on goal and your defenders should be heading the ball clear at it's earliest point possible.

That doesn't mean it's the only way to go of course but just like man marking, if your defenders do their jobs then teams shouldn't get easy chances to score.

Liverpool, under Rafa, played Zonal marking and had the best defensive record (well, Pepe won the golden gloves) 3 seasons out of the 5 he was here.

IIRC we were in the top 2 best defensive record's from set-plays (ratio of goals conceded to set-plays) in all but 1 season under Benitez.

 

[Tom84]

Exactly

I guess Tom expects brilliance immediately for £14m (when even £50m players take time to settle in new teams......)

If you're suggesting his price tag is indicative of the level of ability we should expect then you're extremely misinformed, Kagawa cost 12-14m because he was in the last year of his contract it's widely accepted had he had longer to go on his contract he would have cost a lot more.

Looking at price tags full stop is an idiots way of looking at what to expect from a footballer anyway, I'm just calling it like it is, so far the lads been a passenger, hopefully that will change in the months and years to come

And yet you look at him first, and not those players who have been around awhile and havent been performing at the same time (like Nani for example, who has been invisible when he has played - until last night at least).

Actually to be fair majority of the team havent played well for any whole match you care to mention this season - so I just think thats a pretty ridiculous thing to aim at the new guy on his own.

Actually Frank you're wrong again, I've criticised Nani this season and got it in the ear from Shami for hating on him as well.

 

[Dimi]

Another matchday gone in the Champions League..

None of the EPL teams will be at Wembley in May, nothing I've seen from four of them to suggest otherwise.

 

[Tummy]

If that's aimed at me I didn't expect anything because I knew nothing of him, you were certainly talking him up in the summer though

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=22657256&postcount=8898

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=22657510&postcount=8930

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=22657583&postcount=8944



Yeah to give the lad some credit is final ball in the box at times has been quite 'deft', it's just the rest of his game I've had a problem with

That could apply to a number of Manchester United posters.

I stand by what I said, Kagawa is a fantastic player as he proved over the last couple of seasons. Give him some time and should come good.

I however, find it hilarious that given you knew nothing about him, the weight of expectation has still crushed him in your mind.

I think he's done 'ok' whenever he's played, his vision, passing and through balls are exceptional.

 

[FrankJH]

If you're suggesting his price tag is indicative of the level of ability we should expect then you're extremely misinformed,
.

Yes, thats Exactly why I mentioned Torres's price tag as a comparison

Actually Frank you're wrong again, I've criticised Nani this season and got it in the ear from Shami for hating on him as well.

I wasnt wrong the first time, so Icant be wrong "again". and you completely missed the point, the whole of the Man Utd defence and midfield have been questionable for the majority of the season, but you are focused on the newest player which is blatantly unfair

 

[Jimbeam3678]

Rightly or wrongly, I believe (according to Gordon Strachan anyway) that stats wise zonal marking is better than man to man marking.

The idea of zonal marking is that you've got your best players in the air in the key areas (usually in a line along the 6 yard box). You then have a few players ahead of them that basically act as blockers to stop runs in towards the 6 yard box. Despite Andy Gray (and ratboy today) banging on about "standing jump vs a running jump", the defenders are supposed to go and attack the ball as it's coming into their zone.

Done properly, attackers aren't getting free runs or an unchallenged header on goal and your defenders should be heading the ball clear at it's earliest point possible.

Thanks for taking the time to explain that Baz everyone else explained Man marking and skirted around the Zonal marking.

Your explanation makes sense to a football enthusiast , with little technical knowledge like myself

Thanks again

 

[Tom84]

I however, find it hilarious that given you knew nothing about him, the weight of expectation has still crushed him in your mind.

Once again Tummy you're living in your own little world where you just make things up as you go along, like your comments last night and like your little moan at the Chelsea supporter the other day over his racist comment that only you apparently picked up on.

I had no expectations of Kagawa whatsoever, unlike a large majority of supporters if I dont know a player I'll judge them on what I see when I see them play for my club, I wont get excited over youtube videos or match reports of their performances for the previous clubs. I judge Kagawa the same way I judge Buttner and that's on the handful of games of seen of them in a United shirt this season, I'm not writing them off long term I'm saying it like it is based on what I've seen so far (of course I could just stay quite and say nothing till May to avoid upsetting the more sensitive but where would the fun be in doing that)

 

[Tummy]

I wasnt wrong the first time, so Icant be wrong "again". and you completely missed the point, the whole of the Man Utd defence and midfield have been questionable for the majority of the season, but you are focused on the newest player which is blatantly unfair

Very good point, but alas clearly this new player should be winning games single handedly and playing amazing football in the process

 

[Tom84]

I wasnt wrong the first time, so Icant be wrong "again". and you completely missed the point, the whole of the Man Utd defence and midfield have been questionable for the majority of the season, but you are focused on the newest player which is blatantly unfair

tbh when you're involved Frank yes you are almost always wrong and the fact you think I'm focused on Kagawa despite me pointing out that Shami had a go at me a few weeks back for hating on Nani shows there's only one of us missing the point and it aint me

 

[Andybtsn]

Handbags!

 

[timebomb26]

Kagawa has been good so far. He was our best player in the first couple of games of the season. His got some good assists and goals and seems to be settling at the club well. It must be hard to keep having your position changed, as someone already pointed out. I have no doubt that he will be a very good player. I'd love to see him get AM or SS role for a run of games.

 

[Jimbeam3678]

Handbags!

Better than hands,a pitch and certain other fans

Did I cross that line > ׀

 

[cm1179]

Kagawa has been good so far. He was our best player in the first couple of games of the season.

this was probably down to him being fresher and fitter. i personally feel he's a dud and certainly not worth the fee paid for him. this could all change but i personally can't see it. solid player but a man utd/title challenging player? methinks not.

 

[Azza]

How's this thread gone from some great CL action to talking about bloody Kagawa?!?

 

[Shamikebab]

Well Kagawa played yesterday so it's still a valid topic to discuss, it's not like anyone else is discussing anything

 

[Tummy]

In unrelated but football news none the less; Sheffield Wednesday only lost by one goal against Blackburn tonight. Progress.

 

[Yas786]

Hilarious, i leave the Arsenal game at 1-0 only to get home to find we conceded another lame goal :/

Usually i get mega angry but honestly just like against Norwich, its hard to get angry at how inept Arsenal are both offensively and defensively the pasat 2 games.

Santos has just been utter rubbish but with Gibbs being injured, who else can we rely on??. Then theres that utter knob Gervinho, who cant do anything of note unless there is no defenders in front of him...his dive, watching the highlights was cringeworthy beyond belief. Why the **** Wenger perseveres with him i just do not know, the guy is a clown and shouldnt even be on the field.

Like i said earlier, same **** just a different season. Our defence is a mess, a complete mess and i can see us losing more games so yet again another season of nothing looms for us.

Schalke all evening just tore the left side apart, it was a disaster waiting to happen. But well played Schalke, they deserved to beat us.

Not at all surprised that City lost though, Ajax arent a team to be taken lightly and Real losing to Dortmund was a shock...didnt think they would lose.