UEFA CHAMPIONS LEAGUE FINAL ... Bayern Munich v Chelsea ... *** Spoilers ***

Only caught the second half tonight but I thought Robben was appalling, such a selfish player. His set pieces were beyond **** and all he did was cut inside and blast the ball over the bar, they should have used a Lahm overlap more. Also Mario Gomez who I'm aware has a great record this season is utter **** every time I see him! I counted one touch in the second half, he was barely even moving.

Watching that made me wish we had a player like Schweinsteiger, he just has absolutely everything to his game (well except penalties maybe :p)
 
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The world cup always has whipping boys in there with no hope in hell of winning and someone of a high standard has missed out to let them in. All the groups with 4 high quality teams in would provide much better entertainment.

Would the Champions League been more of a spectical (for want of a better term) with Man Utd in it after Christmas? Yes. Did Man Utd deserve to be in it after Christmas? Hell no, Basel deserved to qualify but by your (and others) logic they wouldn't of even been there to begin with.

You can't go removing minnows from competitions (world cup or the UCL) just on the basis that there's better teams that would provide the neutrals with better entertainment. Your so called higher standard of teams missed out for a reason and that's that they didn't do enough to qualify.
 
Would the Champions League been more of a spectical (for want of a better term) with Man Utd in it after Christmas?
Based on their performances in Europe this year, absolutely not they were rubbish :p
 
Would the Champions League been more of a spectical (for want of a better term) with Man Utd in it after Christmas? Yes. Did Man Utd deserve to be in it after Christmas? Hell no, Basel deserved to qualify but by your (and others) logic they wouldn't of even been there to begin with.

You can't go removing minnows from competitions (world cup or the UCL) just on the basis that there's better teams that would provide the neutrals with better entertainment. Your so called higher standard of teams missed out for a reason and that's that they didn't do enough to qualify.

I refer you to the Premier League, is that a terrible product for excluding the lesser teams and purely having the top 20 in the country in it?

Which was the most exciting UCL group this season? Man City's would win most people's votes. Imagine that in every group and then for the rest of the tournament.
 
Carrick, yeah, but Scholes when the rest of the team play, is brilliant, when the rest of the team are great, Carrick is still a turd who only passes sideways. I was using the pass completion rate to show that even in a bad game for the team, Scholes wasn't down from a 90%+ rate to below 70% and had a bad game, the team wasn't working. There were of course more people like Rooney, Valencia and Nani all hanging around in midfield for Carrick to pass to.

Seriously WTF? For starters I can bring out the comprehensive data that shows the whole Carrick passes sideways thing as a myth. Secondly Carrick had more people to pass to..... Right so where the **** was Scholes playing then so that he had no one to pass to?

As for building a future on a player, irrelevant, so what, its got nothing to do with anything. Drogba could be fantastic for the next 4 years, at what point to you get rid of a player because X amount of years later, the team might need someone else, answer is, it's stupid to get rid of great players, when they can still play great.

Jesus wept you're seriously asking the question when you start to think about replacing a player?

You know what's truly ironic about your entire argument (and this isn't in relation to the above section of your post)? It's that for weeks you've be using the fact that Man Utd have had to rely on Scholes as a negative, now all of a sudden because it fits your argument he's one of the best midfielders I'm Europe. You really don't have a clue do you.

Why couldn't Chelsea get Falcao, do you know he wanted to go to Chelsea, do you realise they just spent 50mil on Torres, do you realise Torres could have started firing on all cylinder's, do you KNOW that they were happy to spend another 40mil on another striker and put up the wages.... when Chelsea have spent the past 5 years trying to bring wages down? Could they have sold Torres to bring in Falcao, who would have bought Torres in that form?

Would Falcao of gone to Chelsea in the summer? Yes I reckon he would have if for no other reason than because his ex Porto manager had just taken over there.
How do I know Torres couldn't of started the season fantastically? I didn't know but he didn't so much like most of what you spout that's irrelevant.

As for what strikers to go into the title race next year.. who was the established left winger at Barca, at Chelsea, who started every game on the two wide positions for City, did Real only have one scoring striker, or 3 + ronaldo? The question is, who says they have to have one starting striker? The only team I can name who won a title this year who have a single scoring striker is Arsenal, who won nothing and if he had been injured we'd have been boned.

(firstly read that back to yourself and hopefully you'll see not only is it factually incorrect, totally illiterate but also completely contradictory)

City have Aguero who's played more often than not and has over 30 goals
Man Utd who finished level on points with City have Rooney who scored over 30 goals
Arsenal have RVP who scored over 30 goals
Bayern have Gomez who has scored over 40 goals
Real have Ronaldo who scored over 50 goals
Barca have Messi who scored over 60 goals
Dortmund have Lewandowski who scored 30 goals
Milan have Ibrahimovic who scored over 30 goals
Napoli have Cavani who scored over 30 goals
Atletico have Falcao who scored over 30 goals
....... Chelsea have Drogba who scored less than 15 goals
....... Chelsea have Torres who scored less than 15 goals

Who says you have to have one out and out starting striker? No one. What the above does say though is that by not having one Chelsea's two main strikers combined have scored less than every single person on that list a result of that being completely **** poor league form

Your entire answer is completely theoretical and revolves around a bunch of what if's all as reasons to get rid of a great player, who is playing excellently, and was the biggest reason they just won the biggest cup and the biggest domestic cup.

Was it not you that just the other day said that Drogba was inconsistent? Yes. Yes it was. My answer to your question (which FYI if you don't like the answer maybe you shouldn't ask questions) is that Drogba doesn't represent the future for Chelsea, he's delivered in a handful of big games for Chelsea yes but he's also failed to deliver in many others and by continuing to rely on him next season Chelsea can expect another season of being no where near the league title and relying on a large amount of luck in the cup competitions.
 
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I refer you to the Premier League, is that a terrible product for excluding the lesser teams and purely having the top 20 in the country in it?

You only have the top 20 sides in the PL because of the promotion/relegation system though which is 3 teams getting more/less points than everyone else which is exactly how World Cup qualification works - those who finish top of their groups are those with the most points thus they're the ones who qualify.

I can see what you want, you want teams like a Holland (who may have a harder qualifying group) in a WC over someone like papua new guinea (who because of what part of the world they're in may have a **** easy group in comparison) regardless of whether Holland come third in their group or not, but that argument ultimately falls apart because again you only need look at Basel and how by going by your criteria they wouldn't of even been in UCL to begin with and yet they were and accumulated more points once in said competition than a team you'd have had no qualms in removing them for in the first place.

EDIT:
And just to get this thread back onto a topic actually related to the Champions League all of this is because a Spurs supporter said they're more deserving of a place in the competition than a team from Latvia
 
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Well done to Chelsea.

Pleased for the lads that have put it in for years and got the big one in the end.

Hard to belive that ryan bertrand was turning out for forest a couple of years ago, next stop champions league final.. well done that man:)

Also ashley cole, Steped up, grown up, become a man.... about bloody time:)

Allways a great player, but you add the above, and only now does he equal or better my hero.. Stuart Pearce.

Another proud day for english football, well done the blues.
 
Another proud day for english football, well done the blues.
I only managed to see the extra time and the penatly shootout, and I have to say, based on what I've been hearing through this thread and the media generally, extra time must have been a compete contrast to the 90 mins.

Bayern were all over Chelsea, and based on what I watched the lesser team (by some margin) won.

And that Robben guys was useless.
 
There seems to be a fair amount of bitterness.

I think more accurately Bayern didn't deserve to win, because their attack didn't turn up. I thought the game was good to watch, and as a non EPL fan had me gripped, and actually wanting Chelsea to win.

Well done to Chelsea for remaining composed during penalties.
 
Couple of things I did just want to point out about the game tonight;

1- I said when we knew it was Chelsea v Bayern that it wouldn't have the quality other finals have had and I got jumped on by the likes of Moses and cmwhatshisface and what do you know I was right, it was a pretty poor game.

2- Once again Ribery was **** and Gomez once again showed anything but the finishing of a 40 goal a season striker (so stick that in your pipe Killswitch :p)

Well done Chelsea though, I'm not as bitter about you winning it as I thought I would be and when your names on a trophy it really is. Enjoy it Chelsea fans because other than Barcelona supporters nights like these don't come around too often :)

Come off it, the game was outstanding. You are looking too much for the perfect game again.

This time I'm not going to argue their cases, Gomez was dreadful last night. Ribery showed some flashes of brilliance and the link up play with Robben was good (you can see why the front 3 have nearly 80 goals between them), but last night he just wasn't good enough.
 
Got back at 04:00 after the match. The sun is shining, so am I and we are the champions. Dreams come true and I don't need and airplane to fly home. Blue is the colour! :D
 
On topic, congratulations to Chelsea. Even up to a month or so ago I'd have thought that Champions of Europe would be beyond the squad, I wouldn't even have been sure that they'd manage a trophy at all but it's a great way to sign off the season.

It'll be interesting to see if Di Matteo gets the job now or indeed if he really wants it - you would have thought this was something he'd struggle to top any time soon.

Isn't this the system for every league in the world?

If they want in then let them win games to get in to the top 32, have a 2nd rate cup for the teams 33-64.

The world cup always has whipping boys in there with no hope in hell of winning and someone of a high standard has missed out to let them in. All the groups with 4 high quality teams in would provide much better entertainment.

I don't think that's strictly true, two high quality teams can make for a thrilling match or it can make for a dull war of attrition where they effectively neutralise each other. Not all teams that are pre-designated as whipping boys end up being the losers in their group and can often make the games more interesting, they will quite often have fans who treat the whole thing as a big adventure and that adds hugely to the atmosphere i.e. you've got no real expectations so you might as well enjoy it.

It's not always the case that having the "poorer" teams in adds to the game in a positive way but I think it would become dull fast if they weren't there.
 
Oh dear, haters gonna hate:p

Absolutely delighted for the old fogies who are well past their best, this was probably their last chance of CL glory, delighted for the owner too, it's clear watching him that he loves the club.
It's incredible what a team can achieve when you have desire, passion and unity on the pitch. We were out of this competition at least 3/4 times during the season and just never gave up. Obviously this team is not the most gifted in terms of ability but I don't think anyone can match what they have got in terms of spirit and belief.
Brilliant stuff:)

Edit: Almost forgot, unlucky Spurs.
 
Really would like RDM to take the job, he gets the best out of those lads, no question about it.

If he has any brains though he'll quit while he is ahead. Like any CL win, there was a bit of luck involved, and it probably wouldn't happen again next time. Also I don't see Chelsea challenging for the PL without a bit of dough being baked.
 
I can't begin to describe it. No pain without gain. :D I'll wait to I get back home as it might sink in by then. More to follow tonight or tomorrow. Now to get back home. :)

Make sure you post some pics up. I'm a spurs fan , but still pleased for you. You always come across as a nice guy on here :)
 
Jesus wept you're seriously asking the question when you start to think about replacing a player?

This is really painful to read because you are so all over the place, no I'm saying, why do you replace a player who is playing fantastically....... why not, errm, replace the weaker members of the squad with better players? Drogba is amongst the LAST of that team that need replacing, I'd replace Kalou, Malouda, Torres, Ferreira, Essien, etc, etc, etc before Drogba.

There is no need to replace Drogba, specifically, until he can no longer actually play football well enough. As for not being able to cut it at the top, he's played in 9 cup finals I believe and scored in 8, the only one he didn't score in was the last champs league final(iirc). Doesn't always show up.. lol.

You know what's truly ironic about your entire argument (and this isn't in relation to the above section of your post)? It's that for weeks you've be using the fact that Man Utd have had to rely on Scholes as a negative, now all of a sudden because it fits your argument he's one of the best midfielders I'm Europe. You really don't have a clue do you.

No, this isn't me not having a clue, this is simply not true. I find it laughable you have to rely on Scholes not because he isn't good enough, but because UTD are the most profitable, highest turn over team in the UK, one of the biggest teams in the world, and SCHOLES RETIRED!!!!!!!!!!!!

If someone is good enough or not, HE RETIRED, and YOU KNEW HE WAS RETIRING, and YOU FAILED TO REPLACE HIM. Drogba DOES NOT WANT TO LEAVE AND HAS ASKED FOR A NEW CONTRACT. Utd, the the 3rd biggest team in Europe, should not have a single top central midfielder even if Scholes hadn't retired. I have all season, all decade, in two millenia never said anything except Scholes is exceptional, so stop talking out of your behind.


Would Falcao of gone to Chelsea in the summer? Yes I reckon he would have if for no other reason than because his ex Porto manager had just taken over there.
How do I know Torres couldn't of started the season fantastically? I didn't know but he didn't so much like most of what you spout that's irrelevant.

It's not irrelevant, and your argument is non sensical. Again, Chelsea had a team of strikers, have FFP to think about, have spunked 50mil on a flop who they couldn't get rid of for now, and you think the could CERTAINLY have gotten Falcao because AVB was there because he used to manage him? Really, that's your entire argument, how do you know Falcao wouldn't have purposefully not signed for CHelsea because AVB was there, how do you know he doesn't hate AVB, or hate england, or hate Chelsea, or simply love Spain, or Athletico, or Athletico's manager, right, you don't.

I didn't say he wouldn't, I have no idea who he likes or where he wants to live, I'm not claiming a POSSIBILITY as fact Chelsea made a mistake like you though.


(firstly read that back to yourself and hopefully you'll see not only is it factually incorrect, totally illiterate but also completely contradictory)

City have Aguero who's played more often than not and has over 30 goals
Man Utd who finished level on points with City have Rooney who scored over 30 goals
Arsenal have RVP who scored over 30 goals
Bayern have Gomez who has scored over 40 goals
Real have Ronaldo who scored over 50 goals
Barca have Messi who scored over 60 goals
Dortmund have Lewandowski who scored 30 goals
Milan have Ibrahimovic who scored over 30 goals
Napoli have Cavani who scored over 30 goals
Atletico have Falcao who scored over 30 goals
....... Chelsea have Drogba who scored less than 15 goals
....... Chelsea have Torres who scored less than 15 goals

Seriously?

let's requote me
As for what strikers to go into the title race next year.. who was the established left winger at Barca, or at Chelsea, who started every game on the two wide positions for City, did Real only have one scoring striker, or 3 + ronaldo? The question is, who says they have to have one starting striker? The only team I can name who have a single scoring striker is Arsenal, who won nothing and if he had been injured we'd have been boned.


Firstly read what I said, you seemed to be implying, oddly, that if Chelsea go into a league with 3 strikers, they'll rotate strikers and fail to win a title. So I made a list of teams who rotated strikers constantly. Real had Higuain, Benzema and Callejon all chip in with 60ish goals between them, and they were all rotated. Barca had an injured striker, but rotated left wing and would have rotated striker as well. The only team with one real striker getting games was Arsenal, as I said, and they won nothing and looked like winning nothing. Did I say ANY of those teams didn't frequently start one particular striker, no, did I say one wasn't the biggest contributor, no, so where was I factually incorrect except in the land of Tom?

Mine was a fairly small throw away comment about a daft one of yours.

Again you seem stuck on the idea that because of Drogba's age, he should go so they can improve the team. Again, that's just daft, replace the worst players with better players, huge improvement. replace the best striker with another good striker... little to no improvement.

You were also making the argument that Drogba and Scholes looked better than they were because of who was around them, no one, no one will agree with you here, you're simply completely wrong.

Drogba didn't score a lot in the league because, again firstly Chelsea were **** under a **** manager for the bigger portion of the season, and they all but conceded the end of the season going after two cups instead, which they won, with goals from their strikers in both.

Last season Drogba was great, the season before that he came the closet to breaking 30 league goals of anyone since was it Henry. The ONLY season he was below par he played essentially half as many games as he usually does, and this was down to ACN partly and partly because AVB randomly tried to implode the team. Making big assumptions on his scoring quality and their title hopes, when the MANAGER came in and made arbitrary stupid decisions, is, arbitrary itself. The manager came in and wanted to be the big man, so arbitrarily picked on two players who he essentially fired, and decided(much like you) that the older players couldn't hack it and so started dropping them.

Manager being a douchebag for over 2/3rd's of the season, when he's no longer there, has no bearing on what players can achieve next season.


Was it not you that just the other day said that Drogba was inconsistent? Yes. Yes it was. My answer to your question (which FYI if you don't like the answer maybe you shouldn't ask questions) is that Drogba doesn't represent the future for Chelsea, he's delivered in a handful of big games for Chelsea yes but he's also failed to deliver in many others and by continuing to rely on him next season Chelsea can expect another season of being no where near the league title and relying on a large amount of luck in the cup competitions.

As before, Drogba delivering in a handful of big games before is, just utterly laughable, he's one of the biggest game players in frankly, history. his record in big games is almost unmatched.

Then we get onto the part of, if they continue to rely on him they'll expect another season being no where near winning anything..... wow.

You do realise they DIDN'T rely on Drogba in the league, again the douchebag manager who came in and failed spectacularly dropped him, repeatedly, and the manager who DID rely on Drogba in the champs league and FA CUP, won both cups? THe past 3 years, 2 of them Drogba was relied on in the league, and he was fantastic in both seasons, this year the manager didn't rely on him, tried to push him out of the team, and failed miserably and got fired?

He could be top notch for another 2 years, maybe another 4 years, who knows, why build a team that can win in 6 years from now TODAY< when you can have a team that competes now, and also build for the future, and also win in 6 years.

There is no monetary gain from selling Drogba at his age, there is no downside to keeping him as he's currently their best striker by a freaking mile, he is one of their best 3-4 players at the moment and has been for 8 years and as of the very last game of this season, he was STILL one of the best strikers around, showing zero signs of age related loss of quality.

Lukuku has shown nothing so far, Torres has been utterly awful, and Drogba has been brilliant, so your great plan for Chelsea is, get rid of their best striker......
 
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