UEFA Euro 2016 Group B ** spoilers** (England, Slovakia, Russia, Wales)

[Russinating]

Walker was MotM imo. Not sure why Rooney got it, he had so many sloppy touches and passes and seemed quite static.

Using http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36163625 I would opt for:

With Henderson potentially swapped with Dier or Milner (I'm not an expert on Dier or what positions they're best in tbh, I just feel a diamond midfield with Rooney in the pocket would work well).

 

[Gilly]

Eerily similar to mine I don't think Hendo would be right in there, for me he excels when he can use his engine to get around and that's not what that role should be. Other than Dier there for Hendo my only difference was Kane up top in place of Sturridge, and even then I said I wouldn't be against starting Sturridge.

I think the only thing I would say on that is that perhaps having either Sturridge or Vardy on the bench to bring on is a more powerful tool than having Kane. Kane isn't really an impact player IMO. I suppose Rashford could be that as he's also got true pace.

 

[Artery]

Keep Henderson away from the pitch, along with Milner.

 

[Gilly]

I think I'd probably play Milner over Lallana in the diamond had Lallana not done as well as he has already.

 

[BaZ87]

I coach players and i see it in real time, not just from the TV......

I don't intend for this to sound rude but I'm not sure if I can believe that and if it's true thats a terrifying thought.

If your answer to fixing the shortfalls of the players you've picked in your system is to switch to a flat 4 then why are you playing that system to begin with and secondly the system you're switching to is even more unsuitable - Lallana ends up as a cm with Rooney and Wilshere ending up wide?

I have Alli and Lallana in midfield in my diamond (can easily swap Milner in for Lallana too) who are more than capable of covering that sort of ground. It's the very reason I had Rooney in the hole instead of Alli.....

No issues with Lallana and Alli there although I'd suggest you're restricting Lallana's attacking threat by playing him there and you'd probably be better off with just playing Milner or Henderson to begin with. Rooney/Lallana in the hole is a much of a muchness - Lallana will give you more legs but Rooney is more likely to directly contribute to goals.

It's Dier I can't get my head around. Not only don't I think he's suitably to the role if you've got Milner/Henderson/Alli either side of the holding player then you don't need Dier for his defensive work because you'll be defending higher up the pitch.

As for fitness concerns - Henderson is a freak and can run all day and you've got to assume that after 2-3 months of full training that Wilshere can start a game.

 

[Swagger187]

Dier holding in a diamond? As omnomnom touches on, Dier isn't good enough on the ball to play there. If you want to play that formation then Wilshere has to play that role and then you make up for the lack of defensive ability with the likes of Milner, Henderson etc doing his donkey work.

Just NO. Henderson isn't good enough player to play at international level. Not surprising to see you recommend a couple of Liverpool players.

In regards to Henderson being a freak. Who cares if he can run all day, we have had Sterling doing that in the first two games and did nothing. No thanks.

 

[BaZ87]

Just NO. Henderson isn't good enough player to play at international level. Not surprising to see you recommend a couple of Liverpool players.

In regards to Henderson being a freak. Who cares if he can run all day, we have had Sterling doing that in the first two games and did nothing. No thanks.

If you want to play a diamond you have to pick players that can run in those positions and the 3 options are Henderson, Milner and Alli.

As for international quality, none of the midfielders we have in the squad are.

And if you're going to throw about the lazy and pathetic bias card, do you mind telling me who you support?

 

[Swagger187]

If you want to play a diamond you have to pick players that can run in those positions and the 3 options are Henderson, Milner and Alli.

As for international quality, none of the midfielders we have in the squad are.

And if you're going to throw about the lazy and pathetic bias card, do you mind telling me who you support?

I disagree. Definitely with Henderson. I think Milner is a solid player tho and always gives 110%.

Bias card? Give over!! Yeah I support United. Unfortunately that means that dodgy centre back we have comes from our ranks

 

[BaZ87]

What was the comment about me selecting Liverpool players meant to be then?

If you've read my posts over the years you'll know I'm far from the biggest Henderson fan going but in a diamond formation he's perfect. Milner is also very good for that role too. If you were playing a flat 2 in centre mid then I'd pick neither - Wilshere is the only player I would pick though so that rules that out.

 

[manic111]

Walker was MotM imo.

How? He got up and down really well, but was atrocious once he arrived at the opponents penalty box.

 

[toshj]

How? He got up and down really well, but was atrocious once he arrived at the opponents penalty box.

You've got to have players to hit, and he had very little to aim at when he arrived in dangerous positions - same as Rose. Wales played 5-2-2-1 and defended very deep, meaning that our forwards had no opportunities to run in behind and also stuggled to find space in front. Because they were defending in numbers it meant that our forwards were heavily outnumbered when the ball was/could have been crossed in. That's not necessarily Walker's fault.

 

[Gilly]

I thought Walker was MotM. It was one of the few things I did see

 

[HangTime]

I think the only thing I would say on that is that perhaps having either Sturridge or Vardy on the bench to bring on is a more powerful tool than having Kane. Kane isn't really an impact player IMO. I suppose Rashford could be that as he's also got true pace.

I've never really bought into the whole 'impact player' off the bench thing. Harry Kane's international debut he came off the bench and scored in less than 80 seconds, you can't get much more impactful than that.

When it comes to forwards, impact player basically seems to be a catch-all phrase for players who are either:
a) Tall [Carroll]
b) Fast [Vardy]
c) Tricky [Sturridge]

So someone like Kane is not particularly tall, quick or tricky therefore is deemed not the sort of player to have on the bench. Presumably the same applies to Robbie Fowler. But my argument is if they aren't good enough to come off the bench then surely they aren't good enough to start a game? For me good players are good players and still worth having as an option.

One thing I think it is important to remember is that even if a sub in himself doesn't offer anything special in those areas it can allow the team to change shape around them. If we played Sturridge and Vardy up top, you'd have the option to put Kane at centre forward and then shift one of those wider (if desired). You could also go a bit more direct as Kane while not Carroll territory is capable in the air.

Yes having pace off the bench against a tiring defence is a good threat to have but in tournaments you have a choice from 12 subs so it's not like having Kane on the bench means you have to leave out Sterling/Rashford etc.

 

[Trusty]

I don't intend for this to sound rude but I'm not sure if I can believe that and if it's true thats a terrifying thought.

If your answer to fixing the shortfalls of the players you've picked in your system is to switch to a flat 4 then why are you playing that system to begin with and secondly the system you're switching to is even more unsuitable - Lallana ends up as a cm with Rooney and Wilshere ending up wide?

I'll ask at my meeting tonight, will be interesting to hear, guarantee he'll say the same thing as me. it's dependant on the other players on the pitch. You do seem to find it hard to get your head round how players move on the pitch, you seem to think a player stays in one place and doesn't move. Where a formation is a rough guide as to where players occupy space in offensive and defensive formations. It's not an absolute, certainly not as this level where players are intelligent enough to occupy a space which has been left open due to whatever reason.

It's really not hard to get your head around a defensive setup in a diamond which i'm suggesting be 4-3-1-2

-----------GK-----------
RB---CB-------CB-----LB
-----RCM--DM---LCM
------------AM
--------ST------ST

Again, you seem to think the formation is unconditional and that there is no evolution within the game, if the opposition is finding space down the right and doing well there, you bring a striker out right to help the situation. You can tell Wilshere to budge out a bit with Lallana dropping in, there's many things you can do but you can't seem to get your head round the leeway in a formation, it's a guide for players which then evolves as the game goes on.

We have very good strikers in the England setup, not many good wingers, lets make the most of them. Which ever central players you want to use, you can, they are top level players, they aren't going to be clueless as to how to play these positions. Milner/Wilshere, Ali/Rooney/Lallana, which ever combo you use really.

 

[BaZ87]

I'll ask at my meeting tonight, will be interesting to hear, guarantee he'll say the same thing as me. it's dependant on the other players on the pitch. You do seem to find it hard to get your head round how players move on the pitch, you seem to think a player stays in one place and doesn't move.

I'd ask for your money back if you're paying for these sessions and put the money towards a reading class

To say I seem to think players stay in 1 position and formations aren't tweaked during games tells me I've been talking to a brick wall. One of the thing's I've been banging on about continuously is how the 2 wider midfielders have to in effect play 2 or 3 different positions throughout the game and even mentioned how Liverpool would switch between a diamond and a 4-3-3 during games.

The reason why I suggested a side of Kane and Sturridge up front with Lallana, 2 of Milner/Henderson/Alli and Wilshere is because if you need to, Kane drops back into the number 10 role and Lallana plus 1 of Milner/Hendo/Alli go wide and the other tucks in next to Wilshere (you can also go 4-3-3 with Sturridge & Lallana wide). Unlike with your 11 which you're already playing players out of position and it only gets worse if/when you have to tweak the system, my 11 can play all 3 systems without any player playing in a completely alien position.

And again on your reading, I've not once questioned the system but that the players you're trying to play in that system are unsuitable.

 

[Trusty]

Lol..ok mate, whatever you say. Which players arent suitable exactly? Milner? Wilshere? If Hendo can the do that RCM role, Wilshere can, he's a far better player.Do you also remember me saying i was unsure of Rooney in CM? Obviously not. You seem to have forgotten that and for whatever reason you started going on about Dier having to be like Pirlo in a diamond, its just plain wrong fella.

My first post was basically just saying 2 upfront. Wilshere, Milner, Rooney, Lallana and Ali all playing in those midfield positions. It would work fine but you started going on about how terrifying it would be.

 

[BaZ87]

With comments like if Henderson can play a certain role therefore Wilshere can, I sincerely hope you're lying about coaching kids. To compare 2 completely different styles of player like that and to come to that conclusion is as cringeworthy as your comment about Neville whispering in players ears.

I don't remember you saying you're unsure about Rooney and I'm not really sure of the relevance of it now?

You have picked a starting system with Dier, Wilshere and Rooney playing in roles they're not suited to and then proposed a tweak of the system where Wilshere and Rooney play in even more alien positions and Lallana ends up in central midfield :/

Slightly off topic, did you not once say you were a ref as well?

 

[McBain]

As for international quality, none of the midfielders we have in the squad are.

Define 'international quality'?

 

[BaZ87]

Very good

 

[Gilly]

.

My thinking around impact player is someone that will force the defenders to have to adapt and play differently. I was a centre half, and the opposition bringing on a faster or trickier player was more difficult to adapt to than bringing on someone that was more static and a more traditional number 9. That was the intention of my post.

Having marked a static number 9 that will have his back to goal a lot and bring in other players for the majority of a match, it can take a little time to get to grips with a more dynamic player or someone with quicker feet that takes shots earlier or wants to take you on and beat you.