UKIP move up to third in polls....

[LLBDTiberio]

Nope, it was several years older than that.

This one here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ViPm0GUxw-M&feature=related

Meh, I think thats a different one, but just similar.

There was another video of an unelected MEP that Farage completely exposed, this is just another. Lots of MEPs have not been elected, the system is entirely buereocratic and really no one has any idea how those MEPs got into their seats, nor do we know who they are, nor do we want them deciding our politics for us.

Difference here is that Farrage is not talking about MEP's, he's talking about the EU presidency which is completely different. All MEP's HAVE to be democratically elected under EU law, we do have an idea of how the MEP's got their seats, by people voting for them. People in the UK just need to get out of their chairs and vote .

EDIT: this thread moves fast!
Bhavv, I have tried to google for a list of unelected MEP's to the Parliament but I have not been succesful?

 

[PermaBanned]

It would be nice to have a government who puts our people first instead of immigrants. Left or right doesn't matter there have been governments who are considered right wing that have done nothing about immigration. All the major parties support it because it's part of a global agenda.

Those on the far-right ore the only ones to have our interests at heart we should be voting for them but instead we vote for parties who are against us! madness.

That's probably because most members of any serious political party are educated enough to realize that combating immigration would cost far too much and that you're only doing it to please a small portion of the population, a portion you don't really want to be associated with. And that's because immigration isn't a bad thing.

 

[The Halk]

That's probably because most members of any serious political party are educated enough to realize that combating immigration would cost far too much and that you're only doing it to please a small portion of the population, a portion you don't really want to be associated with. And that's because immigration isn't a bad thing.

Want a wider brush there?

Immigration is usually a good thing. However uncontrolled immigration is not. I don't believe multiculturalism is a good thing.. and we only seemed to develop it after the 2nd world war, despite always having lots of immigration.

You can pander to the Daily Mail and stop immigration, or you can be lazy and not do it. Ideally though you want to stop the bad immigration - non-English speakers, uneducated, criminal, student visa scam while leaving the door wide open for freedom of movement. By population we're almost certainly the most international, cosmopolitan country in the world, we need to have the door open... but we can control it better than were, and I don't believe we've got it right just yet.

 

[PermaBanned]

Want a wider brush there?

Immigration is usually a good thing. However uncontrolled immigration is not. I don't believe multiculturalism is a good thing.. and we only seemed to develop it after the 2nd world war, despite always having lots of immigration.

You can pander to the Daily Mail and stop immigration, or you can be lazy and not do it. Ideally though you want to stop the bad immigration - non-English speakers, uneducated, criminal, student visa scam while leaving the door wide open for freedom of movement. By population we're almost certainly the most international, cosmopolitan country in the world, we need to have the door open... but we can control it better than were, and I don't believe we've got it right just yet.

Compared to the amount of barely-English speaking, uneducated, criminal etc. British people we have it's basically a non-issue. Fix that and you fix the other. "Fix bad immigration" and you just leave yourself with something else to complain about but less of an excuse.

 

[Castiel]

Difference here is that Farrage is not talking about MEP's, he's talking about the EU presidency which is completely different. All MEP's HAVE to be democratically elected under EU law, we do have an idea of how the MEP's got their seats, by people voting for them. People in the UK just need to get out of their chairs and vote .

Anthea McIntyre for one....an appointed MEP...not a single public vote was cast for her election. It is ironic that She will serve on the European Parliament's Civil Liberties, Justice and Home Affairs Committee.

Also the individual members of the European Commission are appointed by the unelected European Council....they are only commended to the European Parliament as a bloc appointment to voted on...this is undemocratic as it creates a situation whereby the individuals themselves are not under scrutiny by the elected parliament......

The problem with the EU is that the bureaucracy and instituionalism is such that it invites corruption and is almost impossible to police effectively.

It is a monolithic and unwieldy institution that is ineffective and as we have seen with the responses to the credit crisis and the isdues within some EU states beholden to Franco-German pressure politically.

 

[LLBDTiberio]

Can you qualify that...especially in light that the UK is a net contributor to the EU and unlike the majority of other Nations within the EU who are net recipients.....

I would say that the UK benefits from its relationship with the rest of the EU, however the EU benefits far more by having a large net contributor in it's ranks...

The UK could, for example receive similar benefits as it currently does with regard to the trade, movement and social aspects of the relationship by being in a similar position to Switzerland, but without the huge ongoing capital investment to a largely undemocratic, corrupt, self serving and publicly isolated junta in Brussels. The EU leadership is so Franco-German centric that it is embarrassing tbh....

The political union is not necessary to have free trade, freedom of movement, bilateral cooperation and so on.....so how that benefits Britain is something I would like explained and evidenced.

Good point Castiel, I do agree that over the last year it is indeed embarrasing how much the EU has shifted towards franco-german interests, I want all members to enjoy the same benefits etc but I'm just hopeful and a bit of a dreamer . A setup like Switzerland might work but I do not think the EU would accept those terms if the UK did indeed leave.

According to Wikipedia, the UK is indeed one of the 4 largest contributors with Germany, France and Italy all contributing more, in total 11 countries are considered net contributors. In order to explain how the UK benefits from this, let's take an example.

The UK gives £1,000,000 to the EU which then gives the money in aid to say French farmers to help them produce vegetables, by ensuring these farmers are able to produce these vegetables the market get's enough vegetables to satisfy UK customers demands which in turns keep prices low for us. Or the Lisbon treaty which guarantees that you have the same rights as any other EU citizen no matter what member state you're from, making it possible for you to seek help from ANY member state embassy in case you need assistance on holiday. This also guarantees you enjoy the same rights as the citizens of the EU country in which you live, IE if you live in Germany but are a UK citizen, German authorities cannot deport you because you don't integrate with their culture. For example, I cannot be deported by vocally disagreeing with the current political structure in the UK as that would be against EU law.

Problem is that a lot of all these agreements would be forfeit if the UK left the EU and I do not think the UK would enjoy the same benefits on their own or it would take a lot of political power which the UK no longer has.

 

[EdwardTeach]

The UK gives £1,000,000 to the EU which then gives the money in aid to say French farmers to help them produce vegetables, by ensuring these farmers are able to produce these vegetables the market get's enough vegetables to satisfy UK customers demands which in turns keep prices low for us. Or the Lisbon treaty which guarantees that you have the same rights as any other EU citizen no matter what member state you're from, making it possible for you to seek help from ANY member state embassy in case you need assistance on holiday. This also guarantees you enjoy the same rights as the citizens of the EU country in which you live, IE if you live in Germany but are a UK citizen, German authorities cannot deport you because you don't integrate with their culture. For example, I cannot be deported by vocally disagreeing with the current political structure in the UK as that would be against EU law.

These are 100% laughable benefits of the EU!

 

[LLBDTiberio]

Anthea McIntyre for one....an appointed MEP...not a single public vote was cast for her election. It is ironic that She will serve on the European Parliament's Civil Liberties, Justice and Home Affairs Committee.

Also the individual members of the European Commission are appointed by the unelected European Council....they are only commended to the European Parliament as a bloc appointment to voted on...this is undemocratic as it creates a situation whereby the individuals themselves are not under scrutiny by the elected parliament......

The problem with the EU is that the bureaucracy and instituionalism is such that it invites corruption and is almost impossible to police effectively.

It is a monolithic and unwieldy institution that is ineffective and as we have seen with the responses to the credit crisis and the isdues within some EU states beholden to Franco-German pressure politically.

You are indeed correct, under the new Lisbon treaty 18 new MEP seats were created, however, Miss McIntyre's appointment is only until 1014 where the seat will be decided by election. I don't see the issue here as the seat (as indeed all seats) will be an elected seat in 2 years and the electoral commision based the decision on who would have won if the seat had been contested in 2009.

The council is composed of all national leaders of the member states and does not have any legislative powers. All national leaders of member states are democratically elected.

I fully agree with your assesment of the response to the credit crisis and I do think the EU needs significant reform, I for one would like to see the Euro ending or at least more monetary powers being given to member states which use it.

 

[LLBDTiberio]

These are 100% laughable benefits of the EU!

I never said I was an expert at discussing the benefits of the EU, but I can say I have used the rights under the Lisbon treaty when my passport was stolen on holiday and I needed help. My embassy was shut but I used the Slovakian embassy to get emergency travel documents so I could get back . How about the things the EU has done for us, for example, the Kelvingrove museum here in Glasgow had its refurbishment partly funded by the EU regional development fund.

 

[HangTime]

When you look at the voting intentions of those aged 60+ (the people who actually can be counted on to vote) they are up to 17% - 10 points clear of the LibDems.

Looking at the demography statistics, only about ~20% of people old enough to vote fall into the 65+ bracket (although this proportion is rising all the time). Then looking at voter turnout in 2010, it was 76% for 65+ which isn't drastically more than the number in the big younger age brackets (roughly 66-73% for those aged 35-64).

So in fact at the last election there were far, far more voters under the age of 65 than over; the fact that older people proportionally turn out more has been overplayed I feel.

 

[Strife212]

The next Euro election results will be interesting

From 2009:

Conservative 4,198,394 27.7%
UK Independence Party 2,498,226 16.5%
Labour 2,381,760 15.7%
Liberal Democrats 2,080,613 13.7%
Green Party 1,303,745 8.6%
British National Party 943,598 6.2%
Scottish National Party 321,007 2.1%

 

[StriderX]

I never said I was an expert at discussing the benefits of the EU, but I can say I have used the rights under the Lisbon treaty when my passport was stolen on holiday and I needed help. My embassy was shut but I used the Slovakian embassy to get emergency travel documents so I could get back . How about the things the EU has done for us, for example, the Kelvingrove museum here in Glasgow had its refurbishment partly funded by the EU regional development fund.

Just because there are some good reasons for the EU to exist, doesn't mean the bad problems that have come up should simply be forgotten, because of some ignorant fear of a war between European nations if the EU were to be demolished.

The very fact that it took a massive campaign by several celebrities to voice our discontent about fishing regulations (which is still pathetic), is nigh on a perfect example, by the time Brussels come up with a solution, the fish will be extinct.

 

[ubersonic]

I never said I was an expert at discussing the benefits of the EU, but I can say I have used the rights under the Lisbon treaty when my passport was stolen on holiday and I needed help. My embassy was shut but I used the Slovakian embassy to get emergency travel documents so I could get back . How about the things the EU has done for us, for example, the Kelvingrove museum here in Glasgow had its refurbishment partly funded by the EU regional development fund.

A big one is that without EU backing we would most likely have had to surrender the Falklands to Argentina in the 80's. That's a pretty big benefit imo.

 

[anything I don't mind]

Nigel Farage for prime minister or Daniel Hannan!!

end the eussr!

 

[ubersonic]

end the eussr!

Congratulations, that may be one of the most funny (because its so ridiculously stupid) things I have ever read on-line in roughly 25 years of using the internet.

 

[anything I don't mind]

o/ heil the European super state. We are not worthy of our masters in brussels. Hand over your children for sacrifice.

 

[LLBDTiberio]

Ten things the EU has done for Britain.

What shocks me the most in this thread is how a lot of people actually do not seem to understand how the European Union works and I implore those individuals to stop listening to the UKIP and Farrage as the videos shown in the thread merely proves that Farrage has not idea himself!

I'm backing out of this thread and will leave people to it.

 

[bhavv]

Lmao @ eussr

 

[anything I don't mind]

The EU costs way more than we get out of it. We had all those 10 things before the EU and if you add on all the things that we have lost or otherwise not gained from the EU then those 10 examples of positives are insignificant.

There will always be people who want to hand over sovereignty to a group of unelected bureaucrats for their own personal reasons or often interest. It is up to the true patriots and people of true character to stand up against the foreign dictatorship that is trying to end 100s of years of honor and perseverance from our ancestors, that saw our great land defended to the death many times over. Let us not forget.

 

[Castiel]

Ten things the EU has done for Britain.

What shocks me the most in this thread is how a lot of people actually do not seem to understand how the European Union works and I implore those individuals to stop listening to the UKIP and Farrage as the videos shown in the thread merely proves that Farrage has not idea himself!

I'm backing out of this thread and will leave people to it.

None of those things are exclusive to being in the EU however...many countries that are not in the EU have similar or comparable benefits...

For example the Schengen Agreement (which the UK is not party to btw) is not exclusive to the EU and includes four non-EU states and gives significantly more freedom of movement than is currently enjoyed by UK citizens.

Equal treatment for foreign nationals and the freedom to live abroad was also enshrined prior to the EU....Ireland and some members of the commonwealth for example....

Also equality laws are not the sole responsibilty of the EU either...in fact it can e effectively argued that the UKs influence in the EU was a determining factor in the push toward equality legislation, the same with statutory holidays, which again predate the EU, The so called guarantees of daily rest and weekly rest are also not true as they are not applicable across all sectors in the UK and there are specific and wide ranging opt outs available to the individual and employer.

Student exchanges are also not the sole purview of the EU...Student echange programs predate the EU programs and are also in place between non EU countries, most significantly between the UK/US and within the Commonwealth.

Free trade agreements exist all over the world, the EU doesn't have a monoploy on that either.

The other examples you have given are all equally disputable and are not the sole responsibilty of the EU or our membership of it.

So again, the question remains, what is the benefit that cannot be recieved either nationally or by a less restrictive, more specific and open treaty agreements....