Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

StriderX · 22 Apr 2022 at 19:24

If supporting Ukraine keeping it's nationhood is something worthy of a nuclear war then at least the intention is good, but talk of nukes are kinda poopy and feel like they just end up helping Putin if we cower from it.

dunker · 22 Apr 2022 at 19:46

Minusorange · 22 Apr 2022 at 19:47

https://twitter.com/x/status/1517572841469890562

Sorry guys but looks like nukes aren't yet near the table

Fourstar · 22 Apr 2022 at 19:48

dunker said:
in the event of nuclear war, Russia have underground bunkers inside the cities
for all of the population. the Mariupol steel plant an example.

wonder where in UK my nearest bunker is?
there is none.

In a full scale nuclear war the lucky will be those who die instantly. I hope I would be one them.

The following is based on a war between US/West and Russia/China involving 4,400 warheads, equivalent to roughly half the current inventories.

"A subsequent study, published in 2019, looked at a comparable but slightly lower 150 Tg [150 million tons] atmospheric soot injection following an equivalent scale nuclear war. The devastation causes so much smoke that only 30-40 percent of sunlight reaches the Earth’s surface for the subsequent six months.

A massive drop in temperature follows, with the weather staying below freezing throughout the subsequent Northern Hemisphere summer. In Iowa, for example, the model shows temperatures staying below 0°C for 730 days straight. There is no growing season. This is a true nuclear winter.

Nor is it just a short blip. Temperatures still drop below freezing in summer for several years thereafter, and global precipitation falls by half by years three and four. It takes over a decade for anything like climatic normality to return to the planet.

By this time, most of Earth’s human population will be long dead. The world’s food production would crash by more than 90 percent, causing global famine that would kill billions by starvation. In most countries less than a quarter of the population survives by the end of year two in this scenario. Global fish stocks are decimated and the ozone layer collapses."

More here and links to the studies.
https://allianceforscience.cornell....urvive-a-nuclear-war-between-nato-and-russia/

dunker · 22 Apr 2022 at 19:58

firstborn · 22 Apr 2022 at 20:04

Fourstar said:
In a full scale nuclear war the lucky will be those who die instantly. I hope I would be one them.

The following is based on a war between US/West and Russia/China involving 4,400 warheads, equivalent to roughly half the current inventories.

But some of the more knowledgeable people in here have their bug out packs ready to go. They'll be fine I'm sure.

dunker · 22 Apr 2022 at 20:04

dowie · 22 Apr 2022 at 20:14

Fourstar said:
In a full scale nuclear war the lucky will be those who die instantly. I hope I would be one them.

The following is based on a war between US/West and Russia/China involving 4,400 warheads, equivalent to roughly half the current inventories.

No one really knows for sure tbh.. as we've seen with Ferguson's Covid models.

StriderX · 22 Apr 2022 at 20:15

I don't see how with ~0.3-1 MT warheads much of anything is getting into the stratosphere to cause a serious enough problem with the climate. Our cities also (rather importantly) aren't made of wood like Hiroshima or Nagasaki were which I believe perturbs these studies, then also the matter of the strategic benefits of air-burst detonation to maximise damage reducing the threat from radiation/soot further.

Still wouldn't want to be in a city or near strategically important sites obviously, but I think the risk is overstated which is the problem because if it weren't then we'd be better prepared to reinforce society/trade structures instead of thinking 'it'd all collapse so why bother'.

Turn · 22 Apr 2022 at 20:15

*Russia Says One Sailor Died and 27 More Are Missing After Missile Cruiser Moskva Sank, Says 396 Crew Were Rescued — RIA News Agency
*Russia Grants Belarus a One-Year Grace Period for More Than $1 bln of Loans, RIA News Agency Cites Belarus Finance Ministry As Saying

dowie · 22 Apr 2022 at 20:31

StriderX said:
I don't see how with ~0.3-1 MT warheads much of anything is getting into the stratosphere to cause a serious enough problem with the climate. Our cities also (rather importantly) aren't made of wood like Hiroshima or Nagasaki were which I believe perturbs these studies, then also the matter of the strategic benefits of air-burst detonation to maximise damage reducing the threat from radiation/soot further.

Still wouldn't want to be in a city or near strategically important sites obviously, but I think the risk is overstated which if it weren't then we'd be better prepared to reinforce society/trade structures instead of thinking it'd all collapse 'so why bother'.

Yup, we've certainly missed a trick with this particular risk. Switzerland certainly has taken it seriously as has Sweden IIRC.

In theory, you don't necessarily need an underground fall out shelter, if you're in say the middle of an apartment building in an area that hasn't been hit then you have great protection, I've got concrete floors above me, a bathroom in the middle of the building with no windows etc..

A fall-out shelter is only a bit of concrete and like 2ft or earth or something, a medium-sized apartment block probably offers more protection from gamma rays from fall out on the roof etc.. so long as your windows don't blow out/keep the indoor doors closed and stay there, in the corridor/bathroom with no windows for 2 weeks then you dodge the initial issue of radiation poisoning.

I've also got multiple blocks attacked to my block to the north - as far as radiation from an initial blast of say a warhead hitting London is concerned there is several feet of concrete and brick protecting me/in the line of sight.

I guess I'd then have like 30 minutes to move an ikea desk into the bathroom, fill up the bathtub with water and fill up some plastic storage boxes with water too - stick them on top of the desk & to the other side of it and so long as there isn't a fire in my block & the windows have held up then I might well be well protected - gamma rays go in straight lines; layers of concrete above is good protection + 2ft containers with water above too + to one side + bathtub full of water to the other side etc.. to compliment the external sidewalls provides some protection + it's in the centre of the building and not on the ground floor so fallout on the ground outside is at an angle, needs to pass diagonally through brickwork + concrete floor.

Obvs if there are mass fires then game over, multiple strikes covering all of the greater London areas and no chance etc.. but if you're in that situation dozens of miles away from the nearest target then you can totally protect yourself from fallout for 2 weeks.

dowie · 22 Apr 2022 at 20:34

0007 said:
*Russia Says One Sailor Died and 27 More Are Missing After Missile Cruiser Moskva Sank, Says 396 Crew Were Rescued — RIA News Agency
*Russia Grants Belarus a One-Year Grace Period for More Than $1 bln of Loans, RIA News Agency Cites Belarus Finance Ministry As Saying

There was a leak yesterday saying they had circa 100 dead and another 100 or so missing, seems they've basically lost half the crew.

Extra shady thing is that it seems the officers were mostly rescued/seemingly might have gone first and lots of the conscripts perished.

Chris Wilson · 22 Apr 2022 at 20:36

Malevolence said:
Did anyone else notice the size of Putin's right thumb?

I didn't, no, but maybe it's the result of exercising it excessively on a dummy red button...

Skynet5 · 22 Apr 2022 at 20:43

Chris Wilson said:
There's a "Secret Nuclear Bunker" just up the road near Nantwich at Hack Green. Open to the public for a fee, and used for amateur radio the rest of the time. I bet the keyholder keeps them on him at the moment I think some have been sold off for bizarre housing projects for troglodytes.

Another was used by druggies to grow a huge amount of cannabis as those in charge had forgotten to turn the three phase power supply from the grid off... I wonder if there are any that are still fully functional?

It's brilliant. You can go round and count the mice.

I was wondering who might be using it in such a circumstance.

Turn · 22 Apr 2022 at 20:47

*Canada Has Provided Heavy Artillery to Ukriane Security Forces, Says Canadian Defence Ministry

Roar87 · 22 Apr 2022 at 21:05

dunker said:
we have nowhere to emerge from, we're all dust.

wether maintained or not, it's still a shelter for not being vaporised, it's another day etc etc etc of life. this is escalating every
day, there has been no day when this has'nt been escalating. Satan missle test yesterday hmmm maybe he's bluffing, yeah
nothing to worry about.

Russia stated they wouldn't use nuclear weapons unless they faced an existential threat, they aren't crazy enough to perform a nuclear first strike on NATO, the only outcome for them would be immediate annihilation. It is a scary time but people should control their anxiety around this.

Skynet5 · 22 Apr 2022 at 21:09

Roar87 said:
Russia stated they wouldn't use nuclear weapons unless they faced an existential threat, they aren't crazy enough to perform a nuclear first strike on NATO, the only outcome for them would be immediate annihilation. It is a scary time but people should control their anxiety around this.

Agreed. People need to calm it down.

If they pressed the button they better be sure they pressed them all, as I'd imagine our response would be to eliminate them all.

Nothings gonna happen.

ChrisLX200 · 22 Apr 2022 at 21:10

Roar87 said:
Russia stated they wouldn't use nuclear weapons unless they faced an existential threat, they aren't crazy enough to perform a nuclear first strike on NATO, the only outcome for them would be immediate annihilation. It is a scary time but people should control their anxiety around this.

They also stated they were not going to invade Ukraine... Does anyone actually trust what the Russians say?

Minusorange · 22 Apr 2022 at 21:10

Roar87 said:
Russia stated they wouldn't use nuclear weapons unless they faced an existential threat, they aren't crazy enough to perform a nuclear first strike on NATO, the only outcome for them would be immediate annihilation. It is a scary time but people should control their anxiety around this.

IF and that's a big if, they drop a nuke on Ukraine then it's time to start sweating a little on the potential for nuclear war, until then it's just fun & games speculating

Turn · 22 Apr 2022 at 21:17

*Blinken Discussed US Assistance With Ukrainian Prime Minister
*Blinken Discussed With Ukraine Prime Minister Shmyhal Additional Ways US Can Help Ukraine During Meeting Friday- State Dept Spokesperson