Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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inferno said:
All this talk of nukes is ridiculous. Russia won’t do it and if they do, we will nuke them back but 10 times harder. Game over for everyone. It is just posturing. It’s playing into Putins hands all this talk. We need to stick together and give it to the Russians. We cannot be threatened like this. The bully needs a bloody nose.


Russia and the Russian people by allowing this to happen have proven that in its current state Russia is a trash country. I feel sorry for the Russians that aren’t brainwashed/ choosing to ignore what is happening.
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no_1_dave said:
If Russia planned to nuke the west they wouldn't be threatening legal action against the west for forcing them to default. They wouldn't be continuing to sell the west their oil and gas relying on the income. They wouldn't be denying war crimes in a small Ukrainian town to then turn around a wipe out millions of people in a nuclear strike. None of these 'smaller' issues would even be discussed if they had any plans to launch a nuclear strike against Nato. It's all talk, there is zero chance of it happening. The fact they showed enough restraint to not even use a very small nuke to secure the steel factory should also show they have no plans to cross the nuclear line.

They use the nuclear rhetoric to hit headlines in the west. Cause just enough fear/anxiety to hold the west back from going in and stopping them. That's all it is and it's working
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I don't think this is a fully accurate appraisal - Putin/Russia hasn't gone that crazy, likely don't intend to use nukes, many levels of their government and military act more like a mafia or cartel - intimidation is what they know and nuclear posturing is one aspect of that. Putin some ways isn't unlike Tony Montana (Scarface) however, and of the mindset of if I can't have it neither can you - if the situation came to it don't think he wouldn't use nukes. Related to that he'll likely have his "say hello to my little friend(s)" moment before he'll ever see the inside of a jail cell.

Blackjack Davy said:
No but you have to assume we're dealing with someone who is at least sane... misinformation is one thing but outright lunacy quite another and starting WW3 is to put it simply, insane
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I don't think Putin has gone bat **** crazy, but his rationale is certainly not the same as a normally sane person. People seem to repeatedly misjudge him (all the stuff about an off-ramp for instance despite he has demonstrated in an absolute sense he has no interest in taking one) - the implications of megalomania in this case seems poorly appreciated.
 
*Ukrainian Prime Minister Voices Expectation That United States Will "Absolutely" Re-Open Embassy At Some Point
*U.S. Deputy Secretary of the Treasury Reaffirmed Strong Support for Lithuania As It Faces Economic Coercion From the People’s Republic of China — Treasury Statement
 
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Malevolence said:
Tactical nuclear weapons play a large part in Russia battlefield doctrine. So if, after months of their troops slowly getting picked off, Russia gets impatient and lobs a nuclear artillery shell into the Mariupol steelworks there is nothing we could do about it. We could further sanction Russia and send their economy properly into the dark ages but we, and by we I mean NATO, will most definitely not be dropping nuclear warheads onto Russia.
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This is another thing - Russia so far has pretty much stuck to their doctrine when it comes to escalation, even when it isn't the best move in the situation - and nuclear is part of their escalation doctrine.

steve45 said:
Very much doubt it would be discernable
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Tanks can have a variety of sensors/scopes but typically 8-12x optical on those Russian tanks - a person at 4.5km would be slightly less height as the thick reticle markings or nearly double the height of the thin marking at maximum zoom depending a bit on scope. Very easy to miss if they weren't moving (you wouldn't generally be using maximum zoom to look around though). Some of the export variants with 3rd party optics can have 20-30x zoom with auto movement detection but don't think the regular Russian army tanks have anything like that. Not sure what is on the latest variants of T-90 and upgraded T-80 though.

EDIT: That assumes they were even equipped and/or not sold off in years gone past - I've seen a variety of Russian armour heading into Ukraine with missing machinegun mounts, optics, etc.
 
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UK MoD - 'Latest Defence Intelligence update on the situation in Ukraine - 23 April 2022'
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https://twitter.com/DefenceHQ/status/1517730072920305665

*UN Secretary-General António Guterres Will Meet Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky In Ukraine On The 28th
 
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*Russia's Gazprom: Continues Gas Shipments Via Ukraine, Saturday Volume At 48.6 Million Cubic Metres

*Ukraine Defence Minister: Ukraine Is Waiting For an Invitation to NATO Summit
*Ukraine Deputy Prime Minister: If All Goes Well Evacuation From Mariupol Will Start At Noon Local Time
*Governor of Ukraine’s Luhansk Region: All Region’s Cities Are Being Shelled Around the Clock and the Shelling Is Only Intensifying
*Governor of Ukraine’s Luhansk Region: Ukrainian Forces Are Leaving Some Settlements in Order to Regroup, but This Is Not Critical Setback

*Russian Defence Ministry: Our Forces Destroyed 66 Military Targets in Ukraine Overnight — TASS
*Russian Defence Ministry: Russia Shot Down Ukrainian Su-25 Fighter Jet in Ukraine’s Kharkiv Region — IFAX
*Russian Defence Ministry: Destroyed Three Ukrainian Mi-8 Helicopters at an Airfield in Ukraine’s Kharkiv Region
*Russian Defence Ministry: The Russian Army Hit More Than 1,000 Military Targets In Ukraine In The Past Day
 
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Minusorange said:

What does a human 4.5km away even look like in tank optics
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Its almost like a computer game these days, press a button and someone 4km away is blown up. I do wonder if in some way, the ability to kill in this way, at that range, sort of dehumanizes war. That its impact on the individual fighting is lessened in comparison to the more up close and personal combat of past wars. Does it in some fashion reduce the horror of war upon the individual doing the fighting.
 
*Ukraine Presidential Adviser: Ukrainian Forces Have Repulsed Eight Attacks In The East
*Ukraine Presidential Adviser: Russian Forces Have Resumed Air Strikes On Azovstal

*German Finance Minister Lindner: Should Help Ukraine With Heavy Weapons
*German Finance Minister Lindner: Germany Must Not Become A War Party

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Tombstone said:
Its almost like a computer game these days, press a button and someone 4km away is blown up. I do wonder if in some way, the ability to kill in this way, at that range, sort of dehumanizes war. That its impact on the individual fighting is lessened in comparison to the more up close and personal combat of past wars. Does it in some fashion reduce the horror of war upon the individual doing the fighting.
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This is no less "personal" than cannons or artillery of the past.
 
Hook said:
This is no less "personal" than cannons or artillery of the past.
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I disagree. It almost makes the whole exercise of war utterly pointless. You are just ending lives "one step removed". That "one step removed" may as well be a poker table, boxing match or game of Counter Strike.
 
dLockers said:
I disagree. It almost makes the whole exercise of war utterly pointless. You are just ending lives "one step removed". That "one step removed" may as well be a poker table, boxing match or game of Counter Strike.
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I reckon a good portion of this forum population would be incredible drone pilots, even with all the killing. It's just targets on a screen, we've been training all our lives
 
d_brennen said:
I reckon a good portion of this forum population would be incredible drone pilots, even with all the killing. It's just targets on a screen, we've been training all our lives
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True, I've often thought that gamers would make capable military members when it comes to that sort of method of delivery. If they were to come up with a robotic soldier, controlled remotely by someone thousands of miles away using a VR headset, some of the best FPS players around would probably be very good at killing with it
 
dLockers said:
I disagree. It almost makes the whole exercise of war utterly pointless. You are just ending lives "one step removed". That "one step removed" may as well be a poker table, boxing match or game of Counter Strike.
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The exercise of war is for the commanders to get what they want by force because they can.

The quality of the war experience for the people killing or getting killed isn't the point of war.
 
dLockers said:
I disagree. It almost makes the whole exercise of war utterly pointless. You are just ending lives "one step removed". That "one step removed" may as well be a poker table, boxing match or game of Counter Strike.
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In this case pictures of the remains of exploded Russian soldiers are often taken by those who shot them, personal. Putin is the one playing a war game like Hitler did. He should have bought total war instead like we did.
 
dLockers said:
I disagree. It almost makes the whole exercise of war utterly pointless. You are just ending lives "one step removed". That "one step removed" may as well be a poker table, boxing match or game of Counter Strike.
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This is one of the weirdest comments I've read in this thread. What do you think war is about?
 
Mr Jack said:
This is one of the weirdest comments I've read in this thread. What do you think war is about?
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Lets simplify it and say "control of resources".

I guess the point I am trying to make is, ultimately tech will enable us to kill anyone, anywhere. The "sport" of war is gone.
 
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