Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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Werewolf said:
There are from memory "precision" artillery shells that can make it much more precise, they're a lot more expensive but from what I understand if you wanted to make sure you got someone and you didn't want to use say a cruise missile (or didn't have one), you can use a smart shell, and if you use say one or two in a much larger barrage of "normal" ones it's very hard to tell it's been used.

there was a video the other day where it appeared the first shell hit directly on some sort of HQ/command tent, whilst other shells were hitting around it which would have been a really really lucky shot...

Even "normal" shells can be quite accurate if you've got the right equipment, good QC on the shells, and a crew who are experienced and very well trained (IIRC UK and US forces like to try for "tight clusters" of concentrated fire when aiming at a specific target as it saves on logistics and reduces how much time the enemy has for counter battery). Russian Artillery tends to be cheap, plentiful and basically "if it hits the ground it's good".
It's all about how you train for it, how good you are, and the specific purpose.
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Reminds me of the Senate enquiry into Cruise missiles. Claims they could drop it to within milimeter accuracy were tested when they had the actual results. Of the hundreds fired, 4 hit the target. The target sometimes being a large building. Most fell within half a mile of the target and 18 went AWOL. They could not find them again. I am always sceptical of claims of accuracy as the results do not match the hype.
 
do_ron_ron said:
Reminds me of the Senate enquiry into Cruise missiles. Claims they could drop it to within milimeter accuracy were tested when they had the actual results. Of the hundreds fired, 4 hit the target. The target sometimes being a large building. Most fell within half a mile of the target and 18 went AWOL. They could not find them again. I am always sceptical of claims of accuracy as the results do not match the hype.
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Storm Shadows seem pretty accurate - Tomahawk doesn't seem to have a great track record.
 
do_ron_ron said:
Reminds me of the Senate enquiry into Cruise missiles. Claims they could drop it to within milimeter accuracy were tested when they had the actual results. Of the hundreds fired, 4 hit the target. The target sometimes being a large building. Most fell within half a mile of the target and 18 went AWOL. They could not find them again. I am always sceptical of claims of accuracy as the results do not match the hype.
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The difference between accuracy and precision.
 
Rroff said:
Storm Shadows seem pretty accurate - Tomahawk doesn't seem to have a great track record.
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Also a difference between the accuracy of an early self guided missile that is flying hundreds of miles, making multiple course corrections (and using 80's era navigational aids/inertial guidance etc), and something that is basically being fired on a ballistic trajectory and only having to make corrections in the terminal phase, often with "precision artillery" using what are basically laser guided warheads that have a far simpler job, because as long as your initial artillery shot is roughly on target the guidance package is only having to work for a short time to guide the falling munition into a narrowing target area.


IIRC some of the "smart" artillery rounds are basically the miniaturised and advanced versions of the likes of the laser guided bombs from the 70's, which were usually fairly precise if you could get them dropped from roughly over the target.
 
deuse said:
I would blow up the gas line asap.

And I see that germany is the sick man of the eu.
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A good article in the current EYE on Russian oil/gas pipelines going through Ukraine. The Ukrainians could shut of the flow but do not. At least one was damaged and Ukrainian engineers fixed it. It seems that neither side wants to stop the flow of oil and gas.
 
deuse said:
I would blow up the gas line asap.

And I see that germany is the sick man of the eu.
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Quickly nurse, smelling salts for Mr. Jack ;) But the EU, all for one, and one for all, what's occurring here...? Human nature is what's occurring, when the proverbial hits the fan it's every man for himself. To think one of the most awesome fighting forces of modern times is now cap in hand to keep warm and economically secure after just a few months of pressure from those with whom they placed all their eggs.
 
Chris Wilson said:
Quickly nurse, smelling salts for Mr. Jack ;) But the EU, all for one, and one for all, what's occurring here...? Human nature is what's occurring, when the proverbial hits the fan it's every man for himself. To think one of the most awesome fighting forces of modern times is now cap in hand to keep warm and economically secure after just a few months of pressure from those with whom they placed all their eggs.
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I would say To the eu.
Sorry Ukraine has tried it's best, but because some countries have been slow in helping or not even helping.
We are going to blow up all pipe lines coming from russia.

I bet they would do something then.
 
Chris Wilson said:
Quickly nurse, smelling salts for Mr. Jack ;) But the EU, all for one, and one for all, what's occurring here...? Human nature is what's occurring, when the proverbial hits the fan it's every man for himself. To think one of the most awesome fighting forces of modern times is now cap in hand to keep warm and economically secure after just a few months of pressure from those with whom they placed all their eggs.
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I see you still do not understand that the EU is a collection of SOVEREIGN countries.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. We of course would not make the same mistake ............... like we did in the 70's when Saudi Arabia turned off the taps.
 
do_ron_ron said:
I see you still do not understand that the EU is a collection of SOVEREIGN countries.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. We of course would not make the same mistake ............... like we did in the 70's when Saudi Arabia turned off the taps.
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We learnt from our possible mistakes, others who could have painlessly learnt alongside us, did not. All countries should be self sufficient relative to their population's size, IMHO. The world is far too full of people. People we throw scraps to, but where we are really doing them a long term disservice. An equitable balance with nature should be the real Green goal. But they are frightened of grasping the political nettle, like most dreamers.
 
Chris Wilson said:
We learnt from our possible mistakes, others who could have painlessly learnt alongside us, did not. All countries should be self sufficient relative to their population's size, IMHO. The world is far too full of people. People we throw scraps to, but where we are really doing them a long term disservice. An equitable balance with nature should be the real Green goal. But they are frightened of grasping the political nettle, like most dreamers.
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Have we really? We import 20% of our diesel from Russia.

OMG. All countries CANNOT be self sufficient as they do not all have oil and gas. Oil and gas are used for many more things than heating or driving cars.

'Too full of people'?? A monk in the year 1000 said there were too many people on Earth. It is nonsense. Of course who is going to tell people they cannot have kids. At the moment we do not have a replacement birth rate and with housing so expensive that is not likely to change for some time. We need incomers to keep us ticking along.
 
Chris Wilson said:
We learnt from our possible mistakes, others who could have painlessly learnt alongside us, did not. All countries should be self sufficient relative to their population's size, IMHO. The world is far too full of people. People we throw scraps to, but where we are really doing them a long term disservice. An equitable balance with nature should be the real Green goal. But they are frightened of grasping the political nettle, like most dreamers.
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"Hey Britain, we need half the population to die. "

Yes, I can see that working well
 
deuse said:
I would blow up the gas line asap.

And I see that germany is the sick man of the eu.
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So you want to plunge the world into recession as Germany's rather important engineering sector shuts down and very likely destroying the West in the process as populists rise to the fore?

Hmm...
 
Quartz said:
"Hey Britain, we need half the population to die. "

Yes, I can see that working well
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Maybe we should just legalise being able to be "terminated"
I am sure all those who rush to pronounce the earth as overpopulated would be rushing to do their bit and reduce the overpopulation by 1

No honestly I am sure they would ;)
 
do_ron_ron said:
Have we really? We import 20% of our diesel from Russia.

OMG. All countries CANNOT be self sufficient as they do not all have oil and gas. Oil and gas are used for many more things than heating or driving cars.

'Too full of people'?? A monk in the year 1000 said there were too many people on Earth. It is nonsense. Of course who is going to tell people they cannot have kids. At the moment we do not have a replacement birth rate and with housing so expensive that is not likely to change for some time. We need incomers to keep us ticking along.
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That monk was probably right. Look at the mess we've made of the planet.
 
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