Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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This is worth a watch if you have the time. I've always been indifferent about Vice News but I cant deny that is some great investigative journalism:

** Video and link removed as it is not suitable viewing for this forum **

(edit) not sure if the vid embedded properly, added the link in case it doesn't.
 
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This is worth a watch if you have the time.

The thing is, contrary to the videos sensationalism, Russia has never denied the being Russians or even Russian soldiers fighting alongside the rebels. What it has repeatedly denied is that it has sent them there to do that, this is the issue of contention between Russia and the west (like Putin said, if he wanted Ukraine he could take Kiev in <2 weeks).
 
The thing is, contrary to the videos sensationalism, Russia has never denied the being Russians or even Russian soldiers fighting alongside the rebels. What it has repeatedly denied is that it has sent them there to do that, this is the issue of contention between Russia and the west (like Putin said, if he wanted Ukraine he could take Kiev in <2 weeks).

Except that if Russian forces were to openly go into Ukraine it would become much more serious and be a much bigger risk for Russia, as other countries would probably be forced to do more in response.

By claiming that it's just Russian soldiers who have decided to spend their leave off fighting for their comrades in the Ukraine who wish to return to the loving arms of mother Russia they can have their forces taking part whilst retaining deniability.
Of course that deniability starts to wear a bit thin when those brave volunteers appear to be going in entire units complete with their fighting gear, and Russian forces suddenly have a huge upswing in "training accidents" (at the same time the government basically makes it much harder/illegal to report the numbers).
 
The thing is, contrary to the videos sensationalism, Russia has never denied the being Russians or even Russian soldiers fighting alongside the rebels.

Wrong - Even in that video Putin clearly states 'There are no Russian troops in Ukraine' Its been the official Sovie... Russian Federations Stance and has been stated many times on record, just like with Crimea. The story then changed over time as soon as those previous lies became untenable, hence Soldiers on 'holiday'. In the meantime Russian Mothers are threatened to keep their mouths shut about their sons being sent to their deaths, Nice. He did it lying through his teeth with the Crimea fiasco and is doing the same here. They don't deserve the benefit of any doubt.

Keep holding the torch and being over objective though.


(like Putin said, if he wanted Ukraine he could take Kiev in <2 weeks).

And no he couldn't take Kiev in 2 whatever if he wanted to. Ukrainain would whip up into a frenzy of nationalism and start queuing up to kill Russians. The Poles would never allow it anyway, period. I doubt the rest of NATO would let it happen. No love lost between Poland and Russia (WWII History).

Didn't this madman state that he was ready to use Nukes over Crimea omfg.
Reminds me of a mad dictator sabre rattling when his time is near.

Pointless statements from a desperate, racist, homophobic, dictator trying to cling on to his billions while the rest of the country suffers the consequences of his desperate actions. Remember he needs these fallacies or if the truth got out about his exploits especially his stolen wealth he would end up being lynched by his own people hence these distractions of Romantic notions of a 'New Russia' or East vs West Rubbish *pukes*

I expect to hear whataboutisms about the corrupt west or what about WMD blah blah but hey I bet they won't move to Russia though.
 
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Chernobyl is approximately in the center-north of Ukraine. I suppose its safe at the moment, i dont think they are stupid enough to bomb the sarcophagus..

not so much fear of it being bombed, but more around what is the impact on what is happening with regards to the construction of the new one. The new one is supposed to be ready by end of 2015 early 2016 as the old one is at the end of its shelf life.

Failure to sort this out is a serious issue for most of Europe. It was only a few years ago that the farms in the UK for example that were under restrictions due to the fallout were free of the livestock movement restrictions so they could move the sheep around in the open markets again.
 
Looks like it's also blaming MA for sending the plane over an active warzone that other airlines were avoiding, didn't expect that.

Shock horror, russian missile in war zone blows up plane that shouldn't have been there.. Hopefully airlines will fly round areas where armed personelle say they are shooting down planes...:p

Just a shame a plane had to go down for them to realise their mistake.
 
I expect to hear whataboutisms about the corrupt west or what about WMD blah blah but hey I bet they won't move to Russia though.

I returned home from Russia this year, me and my family will return for sure to live once I get my Russian citizenship after 2 years of marriage, life is much better there apart from 3 things, Russians unable to understand how a queue works, terrible layout of shops and terrible cooking / dodgy salads as main dish at all parties.
 
And no he couldn't take Kiev in 2 whatever if he wanted to. Ukrainain would whip up into a frenzy of nationalism and start queuing up to kill Russians. The Poles would never allow it anyway, period. I doubt the rest of NATO would let it happen. No love lost between Poland and Russia (WWII History).

Didn't this madman state that he was ready to use Nukes over Crimea omfg.
Reminds me of a mad dictator sabre rattling when his time is near.

Depends how you look at it the Poles definitely wouldn't take it lying down but if he was (deadly) serious about taking Kiev in 2 weeks then he probably could - what would happen after that would be anyones guess but they would do it under a state of full nuclear readiness and no ones going to jump into that mess without a considered response - at the height of the Ukraine tensions they were trolling Topol-Ms (probably not with actual live missiles but who knows*) around in full view touring villages, universities, etc. in South West Russia doing hands on roadshows and so on blatantly taunting NATO who couldn't miss it.

Ukraine wouldn't take it lying down either but they don't have much that could stop an all out fullscale invasion Russian style (massed artillery/tank leap frogging) without already having decent amounts of cutting edge Western firepower on hand.


EDIT: *Technically they were driving MZKT-79221s around with what appeared to be Topol-Ms.
 
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It took the Russians took months just to take Donetsk airport I doubt they could casualy stroll into Keiv in 2 weeks. Ukraine has plenty of friends who would help and I can't see the US standing by and do nothing to stop them either.
 
It took the Russians took months just to take Donetsk airport I doubt they could casualy stroll into Keiv in 2 weeks. Ukraine has plenty of friends who would help and I can't see the US standing by and do nothing to stop them either.

It took them months because the Russians are pretending it's not them.
 
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It took the Russians took months just to take Donetsk airport I doubt they could casualy stroll into Keiv in 2 weeks. Ukraine has plenty of friends who would help and I can't see the US standing by and do nothing to stop them either.

That wasn't an all out undisguised invasion however.

In a hypothetical situation I doubt the US would respond in any significant way inside 2 weeks, they'd be getting the logistical train in motion, fortifying a frontline while issuing more sanctions and "condemning Russia in the strongest terms" through the media/diplomatic channels.
 
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Ukraine wouldnt even last 2 weeks in an all out war.

What would happen is that Russia would have air superiority pretty much instantly, Russian ships + subs will be used as rocket launch platforms along side land based ones like the SS-21 and Iskander... This would be used to crush any air defence units and in combination with air-force this would be deadly.

Couple that with a land massed invasion which is heavily supported from sources mentioned above... and you`ll see that Ukraine would be in quite of a bind pretty quickly.... Especially given that all the more or less trained soldiers are all in Donbass region, they would be surrounded pretty fast and cut off their supplies and then bombed to hell... Once those are out of the picture, all you have left is civillians to fight against in rest of Ukraine.

I am not even sure if theres any units left in western Ukraine along side border of Belarus, Russians can launch an assault from there and essentially just walk through to Kiev.
 

Read what you quoted again, I didn't say the weren't Russian soldiers in Ukraine or that they weren't there on Putin's orders (in fact I implied the opposite ;))


Except that if Russian forces were to openly go into Ukraine it would become much more serious and be a much bigger risk for Russia, as other countries would probably be forced to do more in response.

By claiming that it's just Russian soldiers who have decided to spend their leave off fighting for their comrades in the Ukraine who wish to return to the loving arms of mother Russia they can have their forces taking part whilst retaining deniability.

Yeah, that's what I was saying lol.
 
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Read what you quoted again, I didn't say the weren't Russian soldiers in Ukraine or that they weren't there on Putin's orders (in fact I implied the opposite ;))




Yeah, that's what I was saying lol.

Well you did say it for about the first 60 pages of this thread. But also my link indicates Russia denied there were ever any Russian troops there. Then they changed to the holiday story when the bodies started piling up and they couldn't silence the mothers.
 
Well you did say it for about the first 60 pages of this thread.

Pfft, this is only p51 if you have the site set to man mode :P

But I get what you mean, I wasn't really denying it though, just playing devil's advocate and pointing out at the time that the wasn't any proof to confirm it beyond hearsay and conjecture.
 
Pfft, this is only p51 if you have the site set to man mode :P

But I get what you mean, I wasn't really denying it though, just playing devil's advocate and pointing out at the time that the wasn't any proof to confirm it beyond hearsay and conjecture.

With Russia, hearsay and conjecture are all perfectly legit.

Truth is eternally mutable.
 
Who want's to play a game of "what will Russia's next excuse be!"? :D

I reckon they will try and claim that if MH17 was definitely downed by a missile launched from a Buk in the combat area then it must have been one of the ones the rebels captured from Kiev forces the month before (not mentioned much after MH17, as the rebels were denying ever having any) and that it was fired remotely by Kiev forces in order to bring international condemnation down on the rebels (actually possible, though laughably unlikely).
 
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