Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

Status
Not open for further replies.
Trouble is a few fold alas..
1. They'll need lots of training to use em properly
2. They'll need lots of ammo to use em for longer than about an hour
3. They'll need spares and people who know how to fix them
4. They'll need a whole load of logistics to stop them becoming pillboxes.
Abrams are notoriously thirsty. It's only really the US with the logistics who are able to operate them and make best use of them.

Exactly. If the Ukrainians deployed M1s as the Yanks do, they’ll need a whole load of support elements or it’ll be a very short fight.


You could probably train an Abrams crew to an acceptable standard in 3 months. Training the folks to maintain and repair them is going to take way longer.
 
None of those issues would stop Ukraine from using them if they thought they could make a material difference on the battlefield over existing tank systems. It's quite remarkable how quickly Ukrainians have adapted to modern western weapon systems and use them alongside existing soviet era tech.

You don't understand logistics or the value of 6-12months of solid Tank training. Ok you could cut this down to maybe 3-6 months with existing tank crews.
 
You could probably train an Abrams crew to an acceptable standard in 3 months. Training the folks to maintain and repair them is going to take way longer.
To be honest I doubt the crews need much training, they probably have more combat experience than NATO operators, they just need some training on how to operate the tank which shouldn't take long, the only real issue is repair and maintenance which like you say takes a long time

 
Does Putin really risk putting russia at danger just because he's losing ukraine? I don't see it.

I don't know why people think he cares? So long as he saves faces/saves his position and as long as the fallout doesn't drop on his Dacha its doubtful whether he gives a damn he's proved he doesn't care one iota about ukrainian civilian deaths or even the state of the people he's drafted who've complained they've been sent to the front with little or no training, he's like Saddam Hussein just another megalomaniac with no empathy for anything or anyone he's barely got any for his own family he's ostracised from his former wife one of his daughters spoke out once against the war on social media and hasn't been heard from since even his mistress no longer wants anything to do with him by all accounts he wanted her latest pregnancy terminated and she's not having it
 
Last edited:
Trouble is a few fold alas..
1. They'll need lots of training to use em properly
2. They'll need lots of ammo to use em for longer than about an hour
3. They'll need spares and people who know how to fix them
4. They'll need a whole load of logistics to stop them becoming pillboxes.
Abrams are notoriously thirsty. It's only really the US with the logistics who are able to operate them and make best use of them.


How do you think the use the US arms they have now?
Do you think the HIMARS rockets are sent by dhl?
And the spares sent by royail mail?
Who do you think trained the Ukraines?

The A1 tanks are on the table as of 2 weeks ago.
 
Exactly. If the Ukrainians deployed M1s as the Yanks do, they’ll need a whole load of support elements or it’ll be a very short fight.


You could probably train an Abrams crew to an acceptable standard in 3 months. Training the folks to maintain and repair them is going to take way longer.


They will just move the tank\Himar to Poland to be fixed.
 
How do you think the use the US arms they have now?
Do you think the HIMARS rockets are sent by dhl?
And the spares sent by royail mail?
Who do you think trained the Ukraines?

The A1 tanks are on the table as of 2 weeks ago.

Make more sense to send HIMARS plus the spares via Royal Mail or DHL as then it can be combined in one big box = save money.
 
I don't know how dropping nukes helps Putin win. Would Ukraine fold if he did that or just get even angrier and determined to win? I think the latter, Russian atrocities so far have bolstered Ukrainian resolve rather than breaking them. Meanwhile, dropping a nuke would massively increase pressure on Western countries to give even more support to Ukraine, even if they don't respond militarily. They'd also likely lose what little support they have outside Russia as well, including from China and India.

But I think military involvement by Western powers would be inevitable. Nukes cannot be allowed to become weapons that are actually used in conflict.

Because he's up against a wall and cornered dogs tend to lash out? Western powers won't get involved militarily Biden is anti-interventionist he doesn't want any more foreign wars involving american troops with no end game in sight. He's said he'll defend every inch of NATO soil as a warning to the russians but that doesn't mean he'll get involved in Ukraine directly. More likely is sanctions turned up to the nines total ostracism an embargo on any trade with russia you trade with russia we won't have anything to do with you much like they've done with Iran
 
Do nuclear weapons actually achieve anything for Putin? The Ukrainian troops are so spaced out that it would take many nukes to remove the troops. So a single nuke isn't achieving anything and they'd need to bomb it into the stone age. And then what use is the land? I suppose it still has the gas and oil but no one with disposable income is paying him for it. He also has the threat of all his forces being eliminated via NATO. So he wouldn't get to annexe the Ukrainian land if that scenario occured. He also risks world nuclear war. Does launching nuclear weapons make Putin more likely to be deposed in Russia? These are all calculations Putin will be making.

They're more effective against concentrated targets depots military bases camps and as a terror weapon to drop on civiliian areas like cities. As for enviromental concerns have you seen the state of russia? Nuclear dumps willy nily the places where oil extraction takes place are a wasteland environmentalism is not a thing in russia.
 
Because he's up against a wall and cornered dogs tend to lash out?

And these days that gets them put down. But I think the degree to which Putin is cornered is overplayed; his grip on Russia remains immensely strong, using nukes is more likely to weaken that hold than strengthen it unless it really does bring a swift end to the war in manner that lets him claim victory.

Western powers won't get involved militarily Biden is anti-interventionist he doesn't want any more foreign wars involving american troops with no end game in sight. He's said he'll defend every inch of NATO soil as a warning to the russians but that doesn't mean he'll get involved in Ukraine directly. More likely is sanctions turned up to the nines total ostracism an embargo on any trade with russia you trade with russia we won't have anything to do with you much like they've done with Iran

The US has been making strong statements that it will not tolerate the use of WMDs in Ukraine, and I think Biden understands that if America does tolerate such use then it will substantially weaken the US's global status. The one superpower cannot be a dog that barks but does not bite.
 
It does appear so; the question is why? I cannot but help feel that there is a whiff of Tsar Nicholas in the air.
Well if he and his family end up at the bottom of a staircase, below an open window and shot multiple times then we know.

Not seen anything blow up in russia recently.
 
Western powers won't get involved militarily Biden is anti-interventionist he doesn't want any more foreign wars involving american troops with no end game in sight...

Absolute nonsense in my opinion. If/when Russia launches a tactical nuke the USA/Nato will seek and destroy any Russian asset outside of the Federation in Ukraine, and at that stage you can bet your ass the rabid Polish will be all too eager to extract their pound of flesh from the Russians as well. It's been made quite clear without "officially" exposing a battle-plan that the consequences for using nuclear weapons would be severe and they were not talking about just mere sanctions.

To keep peddling this only helps the momentum of fear which is the very tool the Russians are infamous for. It's time to call their bluff so we can move on.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom