Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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I see on the Beeb there's an article saying Joe won't put boots on the ground so I wonder what his threats are to prevent Russia beyond sanctions
Biden hasn't got a clue, he's a ******* halfwit. I bet those in charge of the military planning were sat there facepalming when they heard that he'd told Putin that. You don't tell the opposing side in a potential conflict flashpoint what your limits are. You say nothing and leave them guessing.
 
Biden hasn't got a clue, he's a ******* halfwit. I bet those in charge of the military planning were sat there facepalming when they heard that he'd told Putin that. You don't tell the opposing side in a potential conflict flashpoint what your limits are. You say nothing and leave them guessing.

Sadly only snippets here and there seem to have been released but the video call was... interesting... from what I've seen of it Putin spent most of it like he was humouring a child but at the same time though his upper body language was cool and calm his overall body language, some of which was off angle to the conference camera, was nervous which was interesting. Biden was just hot air and completely out of touch.
 
Doesn't UK only have one 'doomsday' sub that is actively in the water at a time? Considering the fleet of Russian killer subs, I'd be concerned. Plus even if it launches full payload, a lot of it could be intercepted.
Part of a layered and networked system across several nations though. The UK aren't launching nukes against Russia on their own.

Again though, it's all just fantastical and irrelevant discussion. No one is getting nuked.
 
Part of a layered and networked system across several nations though. The UK aren't launching nukes against Russia on their own.

Again though, it's all just fantastical and irrelevant discussion. No one is getting nuked.

What if Russia launched short-range nuclear missiles at Ukrainian positions?

Would NATO want to risk it escalating through retaliation?
 
What if Russia launched short-range nuclear missiles at Ukrainian positions?

Would NATO want to risk it escalating through retaliation?

I would suggest not, as Ukraine isn't a NATO member yet so wouldn't be covered by section 5 (an attack on one is an attack on all).

However it would be hugely unrealistic to think that Russia would need to resort to nuclear weapons to flatten Ukraine in the first place.
 
What if Russia launched short-range nuclear missiles at Ukrainian positions?

Would NATO want to risk it escalating through retaliation?
What Ian said, it's an unlikely situation and NATO really wouldn't involve itself like that I don't think. Russia and NATO will just continue to test one another. Countries "in the middle" come out worst of course.
 
I would suggest not, as Ukraine isn't a NATO member yet so wouldn't be covered by section 5 (an attack on one is an attack on all).

However it would be hugely unrealistic to think that Russia would need to resort to nuclear weapons to flatten Ukraine in the first place.

I know it's unrealistic, but I doubt a protracted conflict is going to do Putin any favours.
 
I agree, which is why the Ukraine is currently surrounded on three sides by Russian troops ready to slice the country in 3 across its narrowest points. It'd be bloody but there is no doubt Russia would win and, I think at least, quite quickly despite the Western improvements to the Ukraines military capability.
 
I agree, which is why the Ukraine is currently surrounded on three sides by Russian troops ready to slice the country in 3 across its narrowest points. It'd be bloody but there is no doubt Russia would win and, I think at least, quite quickly despite the Western improvements to the Ukraines military capability.

Its not as easy as you might think, many times in history people though army A would easily steamroll army B.
 
I agree, which is why the Ukraine is currently surrounded on three sides by Russian troops ready to slice the country in 3 across its narrowest points. It'd be bloody but there is no doubt Russia would win and, I think at least, quite quickly despite the Western improvements to the Ukraines military capability.
The Ukrainian army in the 2014 war inflicted a lot of casualties on Russian regulars so I can't see them getting steamrolled especially given the their state of readiness.
 
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-59696450

In the proposals Russia sets out a series of radical demands, which require countries that joined Nato after the fall of the Soviet Union not to deploy troops or weapons in areas where they could be seen as a threat to Russia. Heavy bombers and warships would not be allowed in areas outside their national airspace or waters from which they could launch an attack.

That would mean Nato not playing any role at all in any of the three Baltic republics or Poland. And Nato would have to abandon plans for Ukraine and Georgia to eventually join the Western alliance.

Some crazy demands from Russia to deescalate the situation lol
 
Its not as easy as you might think, many times in history people though army A would easily steamroll army B.

The Ukrainian army in the 2014 war inflicted a lot of casualties on Russian regulars so I can't see them getting steamrolled especially given the their state of readiness.

Firstly - I didn't ever say "steam rollered" etc, I specifically said it's be bloody for Russia.

Secondly - Ukraine's problem is a lack of defensible space with so many Russian's on 3 sides, so as they have little ability to defend in depth that is why I think that, despite the Ukrainian military being far better now than back in '14, they'll still lose and quickly (<1 month) irrespective of how much damage they do to the Russian's (who also know that the quicker the win the lower the deaths).
 
However it would be hugely unrealistic to think that Russia would need to resort to nuclear weapons to flatten Ukraine in the first place.
They could test a small nuke on the Russian side of the border whilst the wind is blowing towards Ukraine :D

they don't need nukes though they have the kind of weapons that should probably be banned

good luck surviving that in your fortified city, even if the blast doesn't kill you the lack of oxygen will

The thermobaric bomb, a fearsome explosive that sets fire to the air above its target, then sucks the oxygen out of anyone unfortunate enough to have lived through the initial blast

probably sucks covid right out of you as well as your soul
 
As a Russian seeing the West move closer, militarily, that won't sound particularly ridiculous,I can empathise with this stance. You can never beat protecting ones boundaries, be it a flat, a city lot, a country estate, or a huge country.


Yup, because the West and Europe in particular are gearing up for invasion.

Must be like ww2 all over again for them...oooppss they also started that one with the joint invasion of Poland!
 
Demanding that Ukraine and Georgia never join NATO is understandable, but also redundant as the 2008 Russo-Georgian War proved that Russia would never stand for that anyway and NATO know it.

The rest of the demands are just lol-able, no NATO heavy weapons or bombers allowed in countries that joined post 97? If those countries want to host NATO weapons that should be up to them.


I know it's unrealistic, but I doubt a protracted conflict is going to do Putin any favours.
It wouldn't be a protracted conflict, IIRC back in 2014 it was estimated that if Russia invaded and the west did nothing then they would take Kiev in under two weeks, and since 2014 the Western Ukrainian forces have lost a lot of equipment fighting the Eastern Ukrainian forces (who lets be honest, are being sent replacement equipment by Russia). It would be akin to the 2003 UN coalition stream rolling to Baghdad.
 
Yup, because the West and Europe in particular are gearing up for invasion.
In fairness here, the main reason Russia are scared of NATO on their border is specifically because the West and Europe in particular (technically France and Germany in particular) have a habit of invading them. You and I know that's not likely to happen again, and definitely not anytime soon, but I can see why the average Russian may consider it a realistic concern. If you lose 30 million people to invading forces in three world wars started by western Europe the natural result is to become wary of western Europen.
 
In fairness here, the main reason Russia are scared of NATO on their border is specifically because the West and Europe in particular (technically France and Germany in particular) have a habit of invading them. You and I know that's not likely to happen again, and definitely not anytime soon, but I can see why the average Russian may consider it a realistic concern. If you lose 30 million people to invading forces in three world wars started by western Europe the natural result is to become wary of western Europen.

I've heard that sort of argument before and it just strikes me as being complete BS, Putin knows full well the flippin EU isn't going to mount an invasion.

It's like saying Poland should be worried about a German invasion right now or we should be worried about the Spanish and French navies etc... All countries in Europe have been at war or faced the threat of invasion during the same time periods, there isn't anything special about Russia there.

They don't like that those countries have fallen within the Western sphere of influence, it highlights their own failings, previously it was communism where they were desperate to keep the citizens of the Soviet Union separate and now it's this sort of dictatorship/gangster government under Putin.

Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania are all success stories, they don't want Belarus and Ukraine to go that way and become aligned with the west, become more successful too - the threat isn't one of military invasion, the threat is the domestic issues and pro-western or pro-liberal opposition leaders gaining prominence and undermining the current regime under Putin.

Ukraine is a larger country and Ukrainians have strong cultural links to Russia, if they become more successful and more secure (and can't be intimidated as easily via NATO membership) then that can influence things domestically in Russia.

They've kept domestic opposition in check so far in part with control of the media, corrupt elections etc.. but a stronger, pro-Western opposition is a possible outcome from Ukraine going that way. Also the revolutions, they're **** scared of what they saw in Ukraine in the Orange revolution in 2004 and the Maidan revolution in 2014 (that's what triggered the military reaction really), that's the other risk if the Russia population starts becoming more pro-Western, influenced by neighbours, they might still be able to fiddle election results but if you have a mass of popular support for change within the population then rigged elections aren't always enough, that sort of revolution is a big risk for them too.

Everything else seems like a weak excuse in comparison, it's a corrupt dictatorship and corrupt dictatorships are especially worried about being overthrown/kicked out of power.
 
In fairness here, the main reason Russia are scared of NATO on their border is specifically because the West and Europe in particular (technically France and Germany in particular) have a habit of invading them. You and I know that's not likely to happen again, and definitely not anytime soon, but I can see why the average Russian may consider it a realistic concern. If you lose 30 million people to invading forces in three world wars started by western Europe the natural result is to become wary of western Europen.

No its simpler than that the russians regard eastern europe as their sphere of influence and don't like the idea of the West advancing closer and closer to russia's borders. They don't want Ukraine to join NATO because its rules means an attack on a single member is an attack on all of them, thats not something you want if you're planning to annexe half a country and a non-aligned western half would be a suitable buffer.
 
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