Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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kylew_is_back said:
So a bunch of azov nazis backed by nato have the moral high ground:confused:? The same guys that started the war in 2014 by terrorizing and killing the Russian populations living in ukraine?
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Ah, we're back to the jewish nazi regime claim. One of the most implausible fake casus belli I've ever heard of and I've read about plenty of dodgy ones due to my amateur interest in history.

But, of course, that's part of the point. As another dictator is alleged to have said, "If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed.” He was also ordering a war of aggression and conquest with the stated intent of colonising land, stealing resources, eradicating a people and replacing them with his own chosen people. While blaming his victims. You're probably familiar with his name. You're obviously familiar with his propaganda.
 
Stretch said:
30% of US soldiers die within 6 weeks of being enlisted, and without seeing combat?
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That’s not what the original post said.
It’s of those who died. Not that 20% had died.
Crap stats to imply exactly what you want it to say.

The data for the US is 2006 to now… so includes Afganistan and Iraq. Not all peace time.
 
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Rroff said:
We'll still need to hold a referendum.
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No problem we'll just roll tanks over the border we occupied the White House once, we can do it again! Then we'll rig a referundum with a 99% vote in favour, jobs a good 'un.

Angilion said:
Ah, we're back to the jewish nazi regime claim. One of the most implausible fake casus belli I've ever heard of and I've read about plenty of dodgy ones due to my amateur interest in history.

But, of course, that's part of the point. As another dictator is alleged to have said, "If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed.” He was also ordering a war of aggression and conquest with the stated intent of colonising land, stealing resources, eradicating a people and replacing them with his own chosen people. While blaming his victims. You're probably familiar with his name. You're obviously familiar with his propaganda.
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I think that was Goebbels though, minister of propaganda? Anyways off topic lol.
 
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Minstadave said:
Wut?
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I think they're referring to what proportion of USA soldiers on active duty died outside of combat. Of course the comparison is completely misleading. The USA has a lot of soldiers and almost all of them aren't currently in combat. Of course a high percentage of the very small proportion who die do so for a reason other than combat. A quick look at the official stats puts the proportion for 2021 at closer to 99%:

Defense Casualty Analysis System

dcas.dmdc.osd.mil dcas.dmdc.osd.mil

In 2021, 1009 USA military personnel died while on active duty. Only 13 of those deaths were classed as "hostile action", i.e. in combat of some form. The others were accident, suicide, homicide, disease. 1000 deaths out of a population of 1,400,000 doesn't seem unexpected to me.

But comparing that to a 20% death rate within a couple of months of forced conscription is wildly misleading. The actual death rate amongst the USA military is less than 0.1% and hardly any of those are deaths soon after joining and none of them are deaths soon after forced conscription.
 
Yeah fair enough the wording on that Tweet is a bit confusing - it isn't 1 in 5 of those mobilised dying before they are deployed. But as Angilion said you can't really directly compare it.

Some rough numbers based on Russia's claims of 300K mobilised would put it at around 0.0086% of those mobilised not making it beyond 9-10 days, compared to around 0.01% for the US army so not really hugely different and that is based on people's best guesses of how many of the mobilised have died so far.
 
Angilion said:
Ah, we're back to the jewish nazi regime claim. One of the most implausible fake casus belli I've ever heard of and I've read about plenty of dodgy ones due to my amateur interest in history.

But, of course, that's part of the point. As another dictator is alleged to have said, "If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed.” He was also ordering a war of aggression and conquest with the stated intent of colonising land, stealing resources, eradicating a people and replacing them with his own chosen people. While blaming his victims. You're probably familiar with his name. You're obviously familiar with his propaganda.
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It probably isn't even a question of repeating it very often for the Russian Population these days. As you probably know, in WWII Stepan Bandera and his followers sided with the Germans to keep Russia out of Ukraine. The Russian leadership started the lie of Ukrainians as Nazis there and then by association with the German Nazis. It worked and became part of the popular Russian historical narrative. Some Ukranian soldiers still refer to themselves as Banderites (as do the hawkish Russian TV stooges) which probably reinforces the lie. In truth they, like Bandera, just want an independent and free Ukraine (edit: Bandera was extreme right wing). Of course there are (and probably also were during WWII) some very nationalist individuals, possibly even an MP or two, which makes it easier again for the lie to survive.
 
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j2ERj8G.png
 
Another great day of losses for Russia with items of note:
  • 800 orcs (thats an entire BTG's worth!)
  • 16 Tanks
  • 24 APV/IFV
  • 23 UAV
and the expensive bits
  • 1 Helo
  • 1 Aircraft
 
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I'm not convicned by the casualty numbers for dead Russian soldiers in a day.
I have no evidence to back this up of course but they've got to be overestimates or exagerations.
 
Angilion said:
Ah, we're back to the jewish nazi regime claim. One of the most implausible fake casus belli I've ever heard of and I've read about plenty of dodgy ones due to my amateur interest in history.

But, of course, that's part of the point. As another dictator is alleged to have said, "If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed.” He was also ordering a war of aggression and conquest with the stated intent of colonising land, stealing resources, eradicating a people and replacing them with his own chosen people. While blaming his victims. You're probably familiar with his name. You're obviously familiar with his propaganda.
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Who was that then? Quit Stalin’ and just tell us already!
 
Rilot said:
I'm not convicned by the casualty numbers for dead Russian soldiers in a day.
I have no evidence to back this up of course but they've got to be overestimates or exagerations.
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Personally a bit sceptical - there were instances where they lost like 450 in failed river crossings and they have thrown large waves at Bakhmut for several hours which have been beaten back with large losses. But mostly it looks like more like up to 200 a day in reality.

EDIT: Saying that - seen one video, though probably more than 1 days worth of fighting, with 100s of dead on both sides for mile after mile up a road, just ridiculous carnage and loss of life.
 
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This was posted back in september before the major Ukraine advances and Russian casualties picked up from 200 a day to 600+ and shows 48k casualties (they've now just passed 73k killed).

It shows what Russia are paying out to KIA families which tracks with the upper estimates.


USA estimates are lower but what isn't factored in are wounded who end up dying anyway.

Usual estimates show that for every man killed another 3-4 are wounded but Russian medical is so bad (aka Tampons) that it could be a much higher fatality to wounded ratio of 1:2.
 
CaneyJ said:
This was posted back in september before the major Ukraine advances and Russian casualties picked up from 200 a day to 600+ and shows 48k casualties (they've now just passed 73k killed).

It shows what Russia are paying out to KIA families which tracks with the upper estimates.


USA estimates are lower but what isn't factored in are wounded who end up dying anyway.

Usual estimates show that for every man killed another 3-4 are wounded but Russian medical is so bad (aka Tampons) that it could be a much higher fatality to wounded ratio of 1:2.
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Though there are videos out there showing scenes looking more like WW1 than the modern battlefield with the approaches to Bahkmut for instance fields where every 20 feet there is either a crater or a dead Russian or both, I have my doubts KIAs are that high - though I've read a few accounts where Ukrainian forces are claiming Russia sent a wave, they killed 100, retreated, repeated an hour later for like 6 hours - but I suspect those 100 are just an estimate.
 
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