Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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Care to make corrections for us?

Hah no - I'd probably get it just as wrong :s but for instance it isn't as susceptible to ammo cooking off if it takes a hit as the T72, etc. as it has mitigations in place for the stored charges even if it isn't as effective as the systems in some of the latest tanks.

EDIT: I could also be wrong but I suspect the ones supplied to Ukraine will have the upgraded Thales TI system as well - but there is more at play than just the quality of the thermal imaging system - the Challenger 2 has a suite of target acquisition and fire control systems at play which give it some of its advantage.
 
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Care to make corrections for us?
A lot of people feel the challenger2 is the poorest NATO tank because of the rifled barrel, so is unable to fire the nato standard ammunition instead relying on HESH(High Explosive Squash Head) rounds which aren’t as effective against ERA(they are designed to produce spall inside the target tank(taking out the crew or ammo). What people forget is the Challenger2‘s Gun is the most accurate out there because of the rifled barrel. I’m not certain but I’m sure I read a few pages back that some challenger2’s were fitted with a smoothbore allowing to fire the NATO standard round, the challenger3 will be fitted with a smoothbore.
With reference to the armour I’m pretty sure it’s Chobham armour wasn’t actually applied day to day because of its secrecy and was applied just before deployment, and with Chobham fitted it was pretty much impenetrable

im sure @steve45 will be along to correct if wrong as tanks aren’t my thing, I’m an Artillery guy(the true kings of the battlefield) :D:D
 
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A lot of people feel the challenger2 is the poorest NATO tank because of the rifled barrel, so is unable to fire the nato standard ammunition instead relying on HESH(High Explosive Squash Head) rounds which aren’t as effective against ERA(they are designed to produce spall inside the target tank(taking out the crew or ammo). What people forget is the Challenger2‘s Gun is the most accurate out there because of the rifled barrel. I’m not certain but I’m sure I read a few pages back that some challenger2’s were fitted with a smoothbore allowing to fire the NATO standard round, the challenger3 will be fitted with a smoothbore.
With reference to the armour I’m pretty sure it’s Chobham armour wasn’t actually applied day to day because of its secrecy and was applied just before deployment, and with Chobham fitted it was pretty much impenetrable

im sure @steve45 will be along to correct if wrong as tanks aren’t my thing, I’m an Artillery guy(the true kings of the battlefield) :D:D
I am by no means an expert myself, all my knowledge of tanks is purely self research and an interest thing for me. I too am Arty guy. Though I am STA not a gun bunny.
There is some merit to the rifled barrel being less accurate when firing APFSDS, you dont want a fin stabilised dart round to spin funny enough, but the L27a1 gets around that by allowing the discarding sabot part spin independently from the dart itself. not ideal but it effectively negates the drawbacks of rifling. The main issue with CR2 gun system is more to do with the 2 part ammunition. it effectively limits the size of the penetrator, where as the NATO standard type is 1 piece and can recess the extra length into the cartridge area allowing for a longer penetrator theoretically improving penetration depth. That said the L27a1 is still a very very effective round and will still have no issue dispatching T90/T80/T72. This will come down to who see's who and can lay on to and fire first.
A lot gets mentioned about HESH, however I suspect this will likely be used to target lighter armour and structures etc, less so for tank on tank, I do question how much Tank on tank there will be at this stage of the war.

The Storage of ammunition I am a little less au fait with. I beleive the charges are stored in a "wet" rack which aids in cook off prevention even when hit.

As for the Chabham armour, it can be found through out and is integral to the design of the tank where its most prevailant and obvious to the eye is the turret, and turret cheeks most obviously. If you ever see a CR2 with it removed you will understand what I mean, it looks like a completely different tank.
I think what you are referring to is the TES (Theatre Entry Standard) Dorchester package, which bolts on further ERA packs to the nose, all down the side of the sides of the skirts and turret. I very much doubt that Ukraine will be supplied with those.

As for the Thermal Imaging system, I'm not so sure on that one myself. I do know that Thales were awarded a contract to upgrade the TI sights about 5 years ago or so. Though I am not sure to what extent this upgrade has been deployed to the tank fleet. I do remember it was quite an improvement over the older system. Therefore I dont know whether or not Ukraine will get the upgraded sights or not.
 
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MTG is an absolute vomit stain of a person. Pretty much anything that comes out her mouth is tainted.

Ted Nugent.. well... here we go... the cracks that Trump tried to exploit last time and threw explosives in, are back again. At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if we start seeing openly racist comments coming out soon.

One last point: The election is November 2024 unless I read it wrong. That's more than a year and a half away, and he's using it as a campaign piece. Interesting. Saying he could impose a peace settlement in 24hours... oh man. Like what... threaten Russia 'or else' ? Threaten to pull support from Ukraine like a baby? That's a great way to get terrorists generated IMO, or war with USA.

I do think this 2024 campaign deserves it's own thread though, as it affects way more than just Ukraine, and will be distracting here.
 
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This is only one part of the puzzle sadly, the rest of it is still "in the mail" as it were...
Gives them more time to get used to them if there is any plus to this.

I'm now airing on the side of 'quick and decisive' is what is needed. Been too long, and too many people are getting killed, that if we (the west) don't get it done, we are going to suffer the consequences of our inaction in the future.
 
we are going to suffer the consequences of our inaction in the future.
Again sadly this whole situation is a result of Western inaction in the first place, But alas, this is the situation we find ourselves in.
Ukraine doesn't affect Americans at all, why shouldn't they want to focus on issues closer to home?
If only the world worked like that... Blinkers on and let Putin run riot on Eastern Europe?
When it does become a massive issue people would be crying "why didnt we do something sooner!". Like I say, the reason this is playing out is a complete lack of action back in 2014. He has been testing the waters repeatedly and been met with no real repercussions for the last 20+ years.
 
Not sure if serious.....worried that it is though.

Well, I'm not American - Russia does affect me more, but explain to me why the average American would care about Russia and Ukraine? It means **** all to them, there's far bigger issues. Wanting to focus on things closer to home doesn't mean they support Putin

If only the world worked like that... Blinkers on and let Putin run riot on Eastern Europe?
When it does become a massive issue people would be crying "why didnt we do something sooner!". Like I say, the reason this is playing out is a complete lack of action back in 2014. He has been testing the waters repeatedly and been met with no real repercussions for the last 20+ years.

How does it affect people in Texas? They care about human trafficking from South America, the Cartels, illegal immigration, drugs, gangs. Russia and Ukraine? Couldn't care less mate
 
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Well, I'm not American - Russia does affect me more, but explain to me why the average American would care about Russia and Ukraine? It means **** all to them, there's far bigger issues. Wanting to focus on things closer to home doesn't mean they support Putin



How does it affect people in Texas? They care about human trafficking from South America, the Cartels, illegal immigration, drugs, gangs. Russia and Ukraine? Couldn't care less mate
Boy you have no shame do you?
 
Most Republicans want Ukraine to win, they don't like Putin, they also have much bigger issues affecting their lives and wonder why it's easy to spend billions on Ukraine yet it isn't easy to spend billions on issues that do affect them.
Maybe they should be asking their republican politicians why that is, given the likes of MTG, food poisoning barbie, and venmo headroom etc vote against everything that could help their constituents?
 
Maybe they should be asking their republican politicians why that is, given the likes of MTG, food poisoning barbie, and venmo headroom etc vote against everything that could help their constituents?

The government doesn't spend money on social issues like helping the homeless etc, so any claim they make about 'taking money away' is pure nonsense. (I'm talking in general, I'm not arguing with you btw :) ) i.e. it wouldn't have been given to the public anyway. When money was quite literally given to us (stimulus checks/cheques), they hired thousands more IRS employees to enforce further taxation on the public, by monitoring things like paypal accounts etc, so they could claw back the money they gave. They NEVER do the right thing and actually tax the corporations in any meaningful way.
 
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