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At least this attack was believed to be something that would hugely disrupt industry and war production - it wasn't just for the hell of it.
Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar
- Thread starter areksnumbr1sxylady
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Soldato
Sometimes you just gotta do what you gotta do.
Barnes Wallis was a brilliant mind, the concept of the bouncing bomb was an elegant solution to delivering an explosion in an otherwise inaccessible heavily defended place.
One could claim the same for the V2 rocket. Weapons of terror do have a place and I am sure that the dams being hit did have an impact on the German command.
Soldato
Good. I had hoped there would be an investigation. Looks like they are going way further than I had expected. Good on him. (The real problem is obivously Russia throwing missiles/drones... don't think I'm ignoring that).
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The Whataboutery is strong in this thread
Needs to be more shiny and chrome.It's the looting cope mobile
Caporegime
I'm not even sure they were German civilians. Most were Russian and Ukrainian women forced into labour by the Nazis.
It always concerns me when people (mainly kids of today) start delving into WW2 bombings. They don’t realise that it was total war. Civilians weren’t innocent they were part of the German war machine. They try to view history through a modern lens which always ends badly.
Germany could have ended the war any time they wanted. All that would have happened is we would have helped them rebuild their nation and they would have recovered. We didn’t have that luxury, we had to defeat the German people through all and any means possible. The same people posting in this thread about German cities being bombed perhaps don’t realise that’s at least part of the reason why you are now conversing in English and not German.
Germany could have ended the war any time they wanted. All that would have happened is we would have helped them rebuild their nation and they would have recovered. We didn’t have that luxury, we had to defeat the German people through all and any means possible. The same people posting in this thread about German cities being bombed perhaps don’t realise that’s at least part of the reason why you are now conversing in English and not German.
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Soldato
All civilian casualties are sad in any war on any side.
Russia is far stronger then Ukraine, so if Ukraine resorts to tactics that results in some civilian deaths it's unfortunate but such is war
...
Soldato
I think people need to take a step back. This thread AGAIN is going full ******.
There is a fundamental observable and proven difference to how both sides approach this conflict when it comes to civilian casualties.
Russia are indiscriminate in how they target strikes. They also have relatively inaccurate weapons systems, and simply have so far demonstrated a lack of detailed intelligence for targeting. In some cases they have purposely and specifically targeting civilian infrastructure to inflict terror/inconvenience and try to dishearten and pressure Ukraine to give up. Thats before we even start talking about the atrocities that have happened in Russian controlled territories, the forced deportation, rapes, murders and looting etc etc etc...
Ukraine, have taken a very western approach of intelligence led targeted highly accurate strikes against military, military industry and logistical targets. Thats not to say they have been entirely innocent when it comes to civilian casualties, collateral happens in war, its always best to avoid it as much as possible however that is the nature of conflict. As for the Freedom of Russia brigade or whatever they call themselves and other Russian partisans. This has muddied the situation a little. If they have any control over these forces, they have to keep them on side... However, I see this as no more than distractionary/shaping operations with the intention of spreading out Russian forces as they are forced to reinforce their border regions. So far they have seemed to be targeting primarily Governmental and military targets. As long as this is the case, I see no issue. Should either Ukraine or the Russian partisan forces targeting Russia end up killing civilians, however tragic it may be will just be a sad fact of war. As long as civilians are not specifically and purposefully targeted, I will not lose any sleep over it.
There is a fundamental observable and proven difference to how both sides approach this conflict when it comes to civilian casualties.
Russia are indiscriminate in how they target strikes. They also have relatively inaccurate weapons systems, and simply have so far demonstrated a lack of detailed intelligence for targeting. In some cases they have purposely and specifically targeting civilian infrastructure to inflict terror/inconvenience and try to dishearten and pressure Ukraine to give up. Thats before we even start talking about the atrocities that have happened in Russian controlled territories, the forced deportation, rapes, murders and looting etc etc etc...
Ukraine, have taken a very western approach of intelligence led targeted highly accurate strikes against military, military industry and logistical targets. Thats not to say they have been entirely innocent when it comes to civilian casualties, collateral happens in war, its always best to avoid it as much as possible however that is the nature of conflict. As for the Freedom of Russia brigade or whatever they call themselves and other Russian partisans. This has muddied the situation a little. If they have any control over these forces, they have to keep them on side... However, I see this as no more than distractionary/shaping operations with the intention of spreading out Russian forces as they are forced to reinforce their border regions. So far they have seemed to be targeting primarily Governmental and military targets. As long as this is the case, I see no issue. Should either Ukraine or the Russian partisan forces targeting Russia end up killing civilians, however tragic it may be will just be a sad fact of war. As long as civilians are not specifically and purposefully targeted, I will not lose any sleep over it.
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What a massive load of tripe you just typed.
Claims TU-95s have launched missiles, some conflicting information again tonight but given the NATO assets on station I'd assume there are strikes on their way
Ukraine needs a free hand to take those TU-95s out.
Which base do they launch from?
There are 3-4 bases they come from but Olenya and Engels seem to be the main ones.
Ah ok, looks like may be too far for Patriot to bring down the planes in the air, even if they bring the system up to the front line. So they'd need extended range cruise missiles to hit the planes on the ground or runway, something like Tomahawk
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They move to firing positions near the Caspian Sea or sometimes (though not so much lately for some reason) just over the border in Belarus.
EDIT: Which is interesting as those missiles have a claimed 1500-2000mile range depending on variation but they never fire them beyond 500. (EDIT2: Actually some must be doing 800-900 miles).
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I'm sure I've mentioned before but the Russians calculate their claimed range as the missiles plus plane it was designed for, if they say it's 2000 mile missiles, 2000 miles is the plane + missile. That makes the number confusing and hard to decipher. The actual range of the missiles operating under its own propulsion is therefore hidden with the only certainty is that the claimed missile range is always higher than it actually is
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I suppose, given most of us work in the UK and pay taxes - some of which goes towards defence spending, some of that is then spent on supporting Ukraine - making us legitimate targets for the Russian military.
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If you want to be really weewee about it, then you can also claim that any country who trades with the UK is also a legitimate target, because when those countries trade with the UK they are providing money or services which will aid in or be transferred part of to the UK government through taxes.
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Soldato
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