Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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Mercenary Keyboard Warrior said:
I don't get the point personally.

Putin is never going to negotiate a peace that can be trusted. Hes never going to negotiate a peace thats going to be acceptable.
They need to kicked out, then allow Ukraine into the EU and NATO sharpish.

IMO let them join both without the lengthy processes, as say "emergency members" and with some specifications on meeting all the normal criteria laid down with timelines.
Joining NATO would probably be easier but still not as simple a walk in the park as it could be.
Whilst their boots on the ground will be in some cases able to integrate with NATO that wouldn't apply fully.
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out of interest, what benefit do you see Ukraine providing to the EU? Ukraine is in a destroyed state and need £billions to put back to its original state before the war....... and you can guess who would be funding that if they join. (which will never happen in the next 100 years). Nato on the other hand is more of a possibility, depends how much guts NATO have.
 
I don't think they'd agree to split the country just to get into NATO, at least not unless they are forced to if they can't win on the ground for some reason.

Besides getting into NATO would not drag the rest of NATO into the war, so it's not as if this grants them anything extra strategically right now.

Better to keep fighting, keep the re-supply and hopefully kick Russia out of Ukraine properly if they can.
 
potatolord said:
Ah, I understand now.

I don't think that's a good idea.

I think recognising Ukraine as "lesser ukraine" just encourages Russia to seize more territory in the immediate future. That seems like the rational move for the Russian mindset.

Also, I guess (*I am a pessimist) that this would encourage a lot of members to accept the new status quo and support for Ukraine would be limited to retaining the new reality, which would again encourage Russia.

A "lesser ukraine" within nato would then be forced by other members to cease operations s against Russia, as if it actively attacked another state, it could not count on Nato support in that conflict.
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Some good points.
I dont like the weakening of A5 personally.
Although I guess it could be ramped back up later.
Its kinda weak already.
 
Mercenary Keyboard Warrior said:
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But you know that SA are basically supporting Russia in this via how they vote in UN etc right?
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I do indeed. But the way to split SA, China, India etc off from Russia is by showing willingness to listen and pointing out where they're wrong, instead of just responding with "you're taking the other side so I refuse to talk to you".

Off-topic, but SA is rapidly heading towards becoming an irrelevant third world poo-hole under the corruption of the ANC anyway. China and India matter far more.
 
peterwalkley said:
I do indeed. But the way to split SA, China, India etc off from Russia is by showing willingness to listen and pointing out where they're wrong, instead of just responding with "you're taking the other side so I refuse to talk to you".

Off-topic, but SA is rapidly heading towards becoming an irrelevant third world poo-hole under the corruption of the ANC anyway. China and India matter far more.
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Yes SA are kind of irrelevant, which is sort of my point. Who is going to take SA views on anything seriously? ;)

I dont think you will split India or China away as such.
Right now it suits them both, Chinas long game is to be number one, India will hang onto anyones shirt tails and happy to play either side (much like Turkey).

Really all this is the point of the UN. But its a bloody useless organisation for obvious reasons.

(Ideally I would have said the UN should be holding a line and safe zone in Ukraine, but as we have seen before it would be just as effective if it was a line of toilet paper) :)
 
FishThrower said:
out of interest, what benefit do you see Ukraine providing to the EU? Ukraine is in a destroyed state and need £billions to put back to its original state before the war....... and you can guess who would be funding that if they join. (which will never happen in the next 100 years). Nato on the other hand is more of a possibility, depends how much guts NATO have.
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If 'benefit' was the criteria for EU membership, I'm pretty sure Greece would have been kicked out decades ago. :p

As a big agriultural producer I'd imagine there is a lot of benefit from joining the EU. However that's more of a move for the longer term once the war is over.
 
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Bug One said:
If 'benefit' was the criteria for EU membership, I'm pretty sure Greece would have been kicked out decades ago. :p

As a big agriultural producer I'd imagine there is a lot of benefit from joining the EU. However that's more of a move for the longer term once the war is over.
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As a big agricultural country, that is a fair old threat to the CAP.

A few countries (inc poland) are already whining that Ukraine are undercutting them on price and successfully got the EU to "temporarily" agree to a ban on Ukrainian grain imports.

Ukraine would require huge financial assistance, which means less pie to go around.

Never underestimate the power of self-interest.
 
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Harlequin said:
Yup all offended. so, once again, comrade, Ukraine wont be split for any reason.
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I'm not offended child comrade, seriously.:cry:

I'm just bemused someone can be so wrong and keep doubling down.

Again there are ZERO things I have posted that are pro Russian
That post wasn't Pro Russian

Your so desperate to see something that isn't there your making a fool of yourself.

Over and over.

Thekwango said:
oh you're definitely upset about summat.
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Lol no.
I am far from upset about anything.
I am having a great day, suns out, listening to the test match.
Off to the allotment soon to do some watering :)

Happy to call out someone who made a mistake and the doubled down.

I'm even happy that my thought on a way to IMPROVE the position of Ukraine was (as pointed out by better posters) was proven to have some flaws.
If you look I agreed that with someone who has more ability to just type more than Comrade constantly.
I am worried that watering down A5 may be a bad thing, and I would ideally see the UN in Ukraine but they are useless.
 
Scougar said:
Ok, just done 14 hours to Iowa, got another 13 to Colorado.... What's the summary of the counter offensive please? All I am asking is, anything major happened since yesterday?
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No its more of the same, minor gains in various places.

Spiciest place is probably north of Bakhmut where it looks like a Russian counter could be cut off.
(Day behind info though based on ISW).

Nothing of any significance disclosed.
 
Mercenary Keyboard Warrior said:
I'm not offended child comrade, seriously.:cry:

I'm just bemused someone can be so wrong and keep doubling down.

Again there are ZERO things I have posted that are pro Russian
That post wasn't Pro Russian

Your so desperate to see something that isn't there your making a fool of yourself.

Over and over.
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Then you need to stop dont you - or is this actually an alt account for Roar?

Mercenary Keyboard Warrior said:
Thats my point. Recognise say "West Ukraine" as a different state, and say that "East Ukraine" is now an annexed country, so treat them EXACTLY like Germany was treated.

Yes you cannot ascend to Nato whilst in an actual border dispute that could lead to article 5 being called.

Hence split into the part of Ukraine that has no dispute, and allow them to ascend.
If there is the will, there is a way :)
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You literally said to split Ukraine and i called you out.
 
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